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Forum Index > Society & Lifestyles > History
>> Do you think that Christopher Columbus was a hero?
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Old Post! Dec 05, 2008 @ 23:48:20#1
windstorm

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I have mixed feelings about him because some say he discovered America and others say he is way over-rated and that he did not. Although he may not have technically "discovered" America, he did stumble across the new land by accident and I'm guessing that if this had not occurred, the America as we know it would not exist today. Even if it did, it would have been much later on in history. Does this make him a hero?




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On July 16, 2009
Old Post! Dec 05, 2008 @ 23:59:51#2
ultranewbie

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no, he's just someone that wasn't considered a "minority" that discovered the west indies..he shouldn't be considered a "hero" considering what he did to the West Indians..

Plus, shipping many of them out to different countries as slaves, sex slaves, etc. also many of them being "on display" for queen isabella..in glass cages in her court..when one of the indians defecated in front of several viewers, the tribe was punished..

He then went to other continents exploiting the young girls and giving them away as "gifts" to the British..many of the mothers who later gave birth to little girls, held their nostrils killing them at birth so that ol' Chris and his cohorts would ship them off as sex slaves..

No he's no damn hero, and he certainly didn't discover america..before Amerigo Vespucci, there were the spaniards, the moors (also known as the blackamoors) before them, were africans, before them were the asians coming across the bering strait, before them were ostracized monks who were kicked out of the monasteries and sent afloat, drifted here over to the states...

no, Chris is no one's hero..but he is great example of exploitation, capitalism, greed, pimping, etc..everything that america is built upon..

On August 12, 2009
Edited: December 06, 2008 @ 00:01
Old Post! Dec 06, 2008 @ 00:06:43#3
Skyseeker

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ultranewbie said:


no, Chris is no one's hero..but he is great example of exploitation, capitalism, greed, pimping, etc..everything that america is built upon..



No thank you sir, no thank you indeed. America was founded on those things but certainly not built upon them. It was built by a group of men wanting freedom for its people without persecution. it was originally built by the people and for the people.

soo yeah... O wait, were you talking about currently built on/ If so then yeah your right tell me a nation that isn't.
On November 01, 2009
Old Post! Dec 06, 2008 @ 00:06:50#4
windstorm

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ultranewbie said:

no, he's just someone that wasn't considered a "minority" that discovered the west indies..he shouldn't be considered a "hero" considering what he did to the West Indians..

Plus, shipping many of them out to different countries as slaves, sex slaves, etc. also many of them being "on display" for queen isabella..in glass cages in her court..when one of the indians defecated in front of several viewers, the tribe was punished..

He then went to other continents exploiting the young girls and giving them away as "gifts" to the British..many of the mothers who later gave birth to little girls, held their nostrils killing them at birth so that ol' Chris and his cohorts would ship them off as sex slaves..

No he's no damn hero, and he certainly didn't discover america..before Amerigo Vespucci, there were the spaniards, the moors (also known as the blackamoors) before them, were africans, before them were the asians coming across the bering strait, before them were ostracized monks who were kicked out of the monasteries and sent afloat, drifted here over to the states...

no, Chris is no one's hero..but he is great example of exploitation, capitalism, greed, pimping, etc..everything that america is built upon..



Wow, I did not know about the "sex slaves" part. Well, that doesn't sound too good. I guess all of the history books that I read were misinterpreted and omitted certain events.



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On July 16, 2009
Old Post! Dec 06, 2008 @ 00:24:25#5
lindasue1718

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ultranewbie said:

no, he's just someone that wasn't considered a "minority" that discovered the west indies..he shouldn't be considered a "hero" considering what he did to the West Indians..

Plus, shipping many of them out to different countries as slaves, sex slaves, etc. also many of them being "on display" for queen isabella..in glass cages in her court..when one of the indians defecated in front of several viewers, the tribe was punished..

He then went to other continents exploiting the young girls and giving them away as "gifts" to the British..many of the mothers who later gave birth to little girls, held their nostrils killing them at birth so that ol' Chris and his cohorts would ship them off as sex slaves..

No he's no damn hero, and he certainly didn't discover america..before Amerigo Vespucci, there were the spaniards, the moors (also known as the blackamoors) before them, were africans, before them were the asians coming across the bering strait, before them were ostracized monks who were kicked out of the monasteries and sent afloat, drifted here over to the states...

no, Chris is no one's hero..but he is great example of exploitation, capitalism, greed, pimping, etc..everything that america is built upon..




Thats some craziness...but not the reason the country was started. Remember it was religious persecution...



There are other things besides money...hunger, misery and poverty.
On October 18, 2009
Old Post! Dec 06, 2008 @ 00:35:54#6
Birdstuff

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Skyseeker said:

it was originally built by the people and for the people.

soo yeah... O wait, were you talking about currently built on/ If so then yeah your right tell me a nation that isn't.


kind of I guess, except if you were a woman, black, native american, or just plain not anglo-saxon... some of the ideals might have been there, just not all were applied...
basically Columbus was putting his balls on the line so he could reap reward through a trading route.. yeah he "found" the americas, hey microwaves weren't invented on purpose either.. but nevermind .. that is something, but hero I don't know..
On June 23, 2009
Old Post! Dec 06, 2008 @ 00:38:42#7
ultranewbie

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i believe you're talking about the pilgrims and plymouth rock? well, that's a myth too..

the first "settlers" were actually, the portuguese, next came those darn spaniards and their Inquisition..pilgrams came waaay later..

the spaniards weren't persecuted, they were doing the persecuting..

On August 12, 2009
Edited: December 06, 2008 @ 00:40
Old Post! Dec 06, 2008 @ 06:32:59#8
ChelseaRaye

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the history books weren't "misinterpreted"
our country doesn't want us to the truth

On January 02, 2009
Old Post! Dec 06, 2008 @ 06:43:58#9
ChelseaRaye

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there's a
"know"
in there somewhere... haha...
and i don't know how to fix it...

i'm tfs retarded..

On January 02, 2009
Old Post! Dec 06, 2008 @ 22:59:44#10
ultranewbie

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history is usually written by the "victor" or the majority. there's an old african saying: "Never let the lion tell the giraffe's story"...

On August 12, 2009
Old Post! Dec 10, 2008 @ 15:09:48#11
soupnazi

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windstorm said:

I have mixed feelings about him because some say he discovered America and others say he is way over-rated and that he did not. Although he may not have technically "discovered" America, he did stumble across the new land by accident and I'm guessing that if this had not occurred, the America as we know it would not exist today. Even if it did, it would have been much later on in history. Does this make him a hero?


Many controversies exist today about Chris Columbus. Ironically history proves a few facts which wold create another controversy but for some reason it is largely ignored. One of these facts is that he had a chart or map to the new world. HE is well known to have spent years trying to get financing for his proposed voyage and spent much of that time traveling and studying in obscure places where one could find reference material and maps. The point is many ignore the question. If he had a chart who drew it and did it not follow that he knew where he was going and had a guide to get there?


Those few who have addressed this do not find it much of a mystery the theory which this leads to is that he did not discover America by mistake he knew where he was going all along. Instead he used the story of a trade route to the far east as a cover story to convince the Spanish crown to foot the bill for his trip. This makes pretty good sense since risking money on a simple voyage of exploration would not have been seen in their best interests. However taking a small risk to open up a new and profitable trade route may ell have been seen as a good investment. Columbus was merely shrewd enough to figure this out.

I generally hate to equivocate but in the case of columbus I often feel I have to do so. Did he discover America? well this depends on HOW you man he discovered it.

Many many people discovered the lands of the western hemisphere before columbus in fact the Atlantic ocean was likely crossed and recrossed for thousands of years before him. The difference in columbus and others was the timing . Others who came here before him had no reason to make a big deal over it. Columbus made his voyage at a time when europe was crowded people were fed up with the status quo and looking for a way out. Many commoners were sick of the aristocracy and wanted a new place to cal there own without some duke prince king or whatever controlling them. So when he made his discovery people began paying attention and started migrating here. Slowly at first but picking up he pace as time went on.

To put it another way no he was not the first to discover america but was the first to discover america and then hold a press conference which people responded to. HE was responsible for the migration here to the north and south american continents.

Ironically many who came before him probablykicked themselves for not spuring their own migration which may ave made them the dminant culture in the world. The muslim moors of north africa for example were great seafarers who made any voyages to the lands here and kept detailed charts of those voyages ( perhaps the source of his map Cordoba Spain had a famous archive of the knowledge accumulated by the moors). When word of his "discovery" reached ireland the many fishermen who made a living at sea who lived on the emerald island scratched their heads and wondered how he claimed to have discovered what they referred to as greater ireland. The vikings were gone by he time he made his trip but they were here establishing small settlements long before him. In even more ancient times the Romans easily could have made the trip and likely did so some artifacts found in north america seem to support this idea. They however had enough on their hands dealing with their empire and probably did not care to pursue any detailed explorations of a distant land. There is evidence that even the phoenicians of biblical fame made regular trips here. These people were well known as traders throughout the ancient mediterranean world and they had goods they bartered in which seem to have come from south america . Goods such as wood from trees which grow no where else. The phoenicians were also well regarded sea going people and easily had the skill to cross the atlantic. In their case hey were likely just smart enough to keep it under wraps in order to protect their monopoly.

In the end I do not know if you can cal columbus a hero at least in he traditional sense of the word. He was however a very important figure in history and should be recognized as such He was the right guy at the right place at the right time to start the ball rolling and change the world.



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On November 12, 2009
Old Post! Dec 11, 2008 @ 06:11:25#12
ultranewbie

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yes, and when he opened up the indies to "migration" to immigrants, guess what they brought with them? pestilence, disease, bubonic plague, and several types of diseases, the natives had no immunity against..

This not only happened in the West Indies but in the Americas as well..it's very well known the plight of the american indian tribes, and the american history book writers do not also document or let it be well known of the problems that went along with European migration into other continents.

Not only Europeans, Spaniards, moors (blackamoors), and other immigrants which migrated into native continents, bringing their baggage..so to speak..

so no, he's no hero..

On August 12, 2009
Edited: December 11, 2008 @ 06:12
Old Post! Dec 11, 2008 @ 13:46:42#13
soupnazi

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ultranewbie said:

yes, and when he opened up the indies to "migration" to immigrants, guess what they brought with them? pestilence, disease, bubonic plague, and several types of diseases, the natives had no immunity against..

This not only happened in the West Indies but in the Americas as well..it's very well known the plight of the american indian tribes, and the american history book writers do not also document or let it be well known of the problems that went along with European migration into other continents.

Not only Europeans, Spaniards, moors (blackamoors), and other immigrants which migrated into native continents, bringing their baggage..so to speak..

so no, he's no hero..


One detail in your post is not accurate. History book writers DO document this all very clearly it is a well known part of history which is not ignored.

You cannot blame columbus , the conquistadors or any others for bringing these diseases because they simply had no idea. Medical science was still convinced bleeding a person could cure the flu they had yet to figure out viruses immunity etc.

What happened to the native Americans was tragic especially if you were one of them. However it is not so much a crime as simply what happens throughout nature.

Whenever two cultures or societies come into contact with each other the more efficient one will absorb or drive out the other one. In fact the same is true with animals and even plants.

ll in all the world is a better place as a result of the US and it all started with Columbus even if he did not intend it that way. SO is he a hero? I don't think he was at least not in the traditional sense but he was influential and important. Not some criminal as revisionists like to paint him.



NOMORESOUPFORU
On November 12, 2009
Old Post! Dec 13, 2008 @ 06:01:21#14
ultranewbie

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no one's blaming anyone, the bottom line, is, he's not a hero.

On August 12, 2009
Old Post! Feb 22, 2009 @ 01:50:38#15
CenturionMacro

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He tortured Natives, that is not cool, so i do not like him.




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On March 23, 2009
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