|
 Post in Forums
Create a Profile
Upload Pictures
Make Polls
|
Keep a Journal
Meet Friends
Have Fun
It's FREE!
|
|
Sign Up!
|
|
|
Forum Index > News & Politics > Environment | >> DDT deposit off Southern California will be capped | | |
|
iwannano
Monk+
39970 points
49/F/Mountainair area, New Mexico
Join Date: Mar 2008 | Quote:
About 110 tons of DDT from a manufacturer and 10 tons of PCBs from industrial operations flowed for years through the Los Angeles County sewer system into the ocean and accumulated in a nine-mile-long swath. Now, an existing thin layer of silt over the contaminants is showing signs of erosion
The DDT was released from 1947 to 1971 by manufacturer Montrose Chemical Corp. into sewers that flowed into the Pacific. Widely used until its environmental impacts were recognized, DDT was banned in 1972.
PCBs, short for polychlorinated biphenyl, were used in a wide range of products and materials including electrical equipment, oils, insulation, adhesives, plastics and floor finish, according to the EPA. PCBs were manufactured in the U.S. from 1929 until they were banned in 1979.
High levels of DDT and PCBs can move through the food chain by accumulating in microorganisms, worms, fish and birds. Human consumption can harm the liver and central nervous system and increase cancer risks.
link [hosted.ap.org]
by the year 2012 it will be 65 years the DDT has been contaminating our environment and 83 years the PCB's have.
It really is astounding how little regard our grandparents had for the planet and the natural resources just a few 100 years ago . It seems that a very large percentage of them truly gave no thought to the future and the environment . When the industrial period started and the inventing machines that burned fossil fuel got started all the world thought about in those days was 'those days' . The people did more damages in a couple of centuries then all the millions of years prior .
Damn scary when I think about it.
Won't work/Ta-Ta!!
Well, if crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight? They never mention that part to us, do they?
George Carlin |  | | Edited: October 06, 2009 @ 04:44 |  |
|
|
WeNowSix
Über-Meister
2030 points
87/F/Anaheim, California
Join Date: Aug 2009 | iwannano said:
It really is astounding how little regard our grandparents had for the planet and the natural resources just a few 100 years ago . It seems that a very large percentage of them truly gave no thought to the future and the environment.
Somebody needs to point out that nobody, like in zero, nada, none, not even one, had any environmental concern. Tree huggers here in the United States sometimes credit Henry VIII, King of England, as the first environmentalist because he bought Hyde Park and turned it into the first (more or less) National Park.
Henry's concern for the land differs from modern environmentalists in one major way. Henry bought the land for himself. Modern environmentalists use the law, an idea known as endangered species, to take the land for themselves. |  | | Edited: October 06, 2009 @ 11:52 | |
|
|
|
|
iwannano
Monk+
39970 points
49/F/Mountainair area, New Mexico
Join Date: Mar 2008 | WeNowSix said:
Somebody needs to point out that nobody, like in zero, nada, none, not even one, had any environmental concern. Tree huggers here in the United States sometimes credit Henry VIII, King of England, as the first environmentalist because he bought Hyde Park and turned it into the first (more or less) National Park.
Henry's concern for the land differs from modern environmentalists in one major way. Henry bought the land for himself. Modern environmentalists use the law, an idea known as endangered species, to take the land for themselves.
I was just trying to put together a post about this same topic. How utterly ignorant the human being seems to be when it comes to learning from the past and the cause and effect of our actions/ behaviours. But it wasn't until the burning of fossil fuels and the invention of chemicals like those in the article ,that the permanent damage started taking place.
Won't work/Ta-Ta!!
Well, if crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight? They never mention that part to us, do they?
George Carlin | | | |
|
WeNowSix
Über-Meister
2030 points
87/F/Anaheim, California
Join Date: Aug 2009 | iwannano said:
I was just trying to put together a post about this same topic. How utterly ignorant the human being seems to be when it comes to learning from the past and the cause and effect of our actions/ behaviours. But it wasn't until the burning of fossil fuels and the invention of chemicals like those in the article ,that the permanent damage started taking place.
Maybe history repeats itself. Or not. I think I could argue either side of the issue. I don't know if I believe the notion that human use of fossil fuels causes damage, and if so, is that damage somehow permanent. Anything that I might call damage, Earth might call a burp.
Thirty years ago I lived with my son in Arizona because my daughter-in-law had gotten a job with a law firm in Phoenix. The firm had many Republican clients. Barry Goldwater, I think he was still a senator, promoted building a dam in the Grand Canyon, and the tree huggers were having a coronary over the idea. At a meeting where people debated the dam, a geologist said that Earth had dammed the canyon several times in geological time, and Goldwater's dam didn't do anything that the canyon had not already done to itself more than once. I remember wondering if the opposition to the dam had some merit or was it only luddites opposed to change.
Many of the things that pass for environment concern have a ludditic tinge. For example, our tree hugging friends insist that temperature increase is bad. Well, bad for what? Florida maybe? Seems to me, increased winter temperature might be good for Canada or Siberia.
Here in the United States, we recently had an election, which elected a president who favors change.
 
One idea that may be true is the notion that no past society has had any concern for altering the environment. And no past society ever had a better understanding of how many ways the cosmos wants to kill us. Asteroids, super volcanoes, etc. Just the existence of fossil fuels in Earth's crust could cause a release of methane that might choke us all to death. | | | |
|
iwannano
Monk+
39970 points
49/F/Mountainair area, New Mexico
Join Date: Mar 2008 | WeNowSix said:
Maybe history repeats itself. Or not. I think I could argue either side of the issue. I don't know if I believe the notion that human use of fossil fuels causes damage, and if so, is that damage somehow permanent. Anything that I might call damage, Earth might call a burp.
Thirty years ago I lived with my son in Arizona because my daughter-in-law had gotten a job with a law firm in Phoenix. The firm had many Republican clients. Barry Goldwater, I think he was still a senator, promoted building a dam in the Grand Canyon, and the tree huggers were having a coronary over the idea. At a meeting where people debated the dam, a geologist said that Earth had dammed the canyon several times in geological time, and Goldwater's dam didn't do anything that the canyon had not already done to itself more than once. I remember wondering if the opposition to the dam had some merit or was it only luddites opposed to change.
Many of the things that pass for environment concern have a luddite tinge. For example, our tree hugging friends insist that temperature increase is bad. Well, bad for what? Florida maybe? Seems to me, increased winter temperature might be good for Canada or Siberia.
Here in the United States, we recently had an election, which elected a president who favors change.
One idea that may be true is the notion that no past society has had any concern for altering the environment. And no past society ever had a better understanding of how many ways the cosmos wants to kill us. Asteroids, super volcanoes, etc. Just the existence of fossil fuels in Earth's crust could cause a release of methane that might choke us all to death.
OK, given enough time nature will always take back whats hers. The proof of this is in any aceinct ruins anywhere in the world . but take this poisons that this thread is about. i know the oceans are natures filtering systems , but what humans have dumped into our oceans by way of oil spills by the millions of barrels , toxic waste by the ton , this 9 mile long trail of man made chemicals that can cause whole species to become totally extinct in less than a generation . I have questioned the 'temperature increase ' and the cause and effect s of it.
I feel that with thousands of years ,since humans have been uninterested and ignorant of our the environment and continuously dumping and chopping and damming burning , etc... It is blatantly obvious in just the last 300 years that we took a untouched and unaltered by anything other then nature what we call North America and so completely altered it from it's original state that it's pretty much unrecognizable compared to it when we first discovered it. and we ain't any any way form or fashion inclined to leave now or anytime soon. what will this same Norrth America look like after another 300 years ?
Won't work/Ta-Ta!!
Well, if crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight? They never mention that part to us, do they?
George Carlin | | | |
|
WeNowSix
Über-Meister
2030 points
87/F/Anaheim, California
Join Date: Aug 2009 | If I'm to have any environmental concerns, they would need to come from the possibility that humans might do something to make Earth uninhabitable for humans. Any discussion of how Earth might become uninhabitable needs to include uninhabitablility due to inaction by humans.
For example, human genetic research suggests that in recent Earth time (from a human point of view perhaps a long time, some tens of thousands of years) something killed almost all humans. One suspect is a volcano in Southeast Asia. A similar volcano is brewing here in North America.
Another concern, which I could have, would come not so much from what we do to the environment, but what we do to each other. At the high school where I volunteer, I found an old (from maybe the 1960's) Time Magazine history book. If has a discussion of abandoned cities. If we're going to talk about humans affecting the environment, I should try to find the book because it has a discussion of the abandoned ruins, the sort you mentioned in a previous post. The ruins, often whole cities, may have been abandoned because of human interaction with the environment, or they could have been abandoned due to some interaction among the inhabitants.
One might wonder, did the forest overgrow the Mayan cities because of something the Maya did to the forest or because of something the Maya did to each other?
If I remember correctly, Aztecs, or perhaps Cortez, found an abandoned Toltec city, sort of in the manor of a Ray Bradbury or Danphne de Maurier short story. It could be an interesting example to study. | | | |
|
iwannano
Monk+
39970 points
49/F/Mountainair area, New Mexico
Join Date: Mar 2008 | WeNowSix said:
If I'm to have any environmental concerns, they would need to come from the possibility that humans might do something to make Earth uninhabitable for humans. Any discussion of how Earth might become uninhabitable needs to include uninhabitablility due to inaction by humans.
For example, human genetic research suggests that in recent Earth time (from a human point of view perhaps a long time, some tens of thousands of years) something killed almost all humans. One suspect is a volcano in Southeast Asia. A similar volcano is brewing here in North America.
Another concern, which I could have, would come not so much from what we do to the environment, but what we do to each other. At the high school where I volunteer, I found an old (from maybe the 1960's) Time Magazine history book. If has a discussion of abandoned cities. If we're going to talk about humans affecting the environment, I should try to find the book because it has a discussion of the abandoned ruins, the sort you mentioned in a previous post. The ruins, often whole cities, may have been abandoned because of human interaction with the environment, or they could have been abandoned due to some interaction among the inhabitants.
One might wonder, did the forest overgrow the Mayan cities because of something the Maya did to the forest or because of something the Maya did to each other?
If I remember correctly, Aztecs, or perhaps Cortez, found an abandoned Toltec city, sort of in the manor of a Ray Bradbury or Danphne de Maurier short story. It could be an interesting example to study.
There are 3 ruins within about a 1 mile radios of my place ,the youngest is about 600 y=ears abandon and the oldest is more than around 10 centuries abandon , they are all similar in the way they were built and all have artifacts of the same peoples . I wondered if the land just couldn't support the people any longer , the wild life being harvested and the soil being over used with crops till they had no choice. The ruins are all pretty large as ruins go . and even with every capable member of the band working finding and carring rocks enough to build something that easily covers 8 or 10 acres and stands 1 and 1/2 stories tall is a job that wouldn't be repeated often . when my grand dad first seen this country as a 10 year old boy in 1912 it was a mix of pine , pinon and juniper forest . In my life time of 50 years it has always been what it is today scattered scooby cedar bush and brush . There is under ground springs that will come to the surface and run for sometimes years and then sometimes months . Back when grand dad was young there where permanent creeks and springs every where. hand dug well no deeper than 20 feet , now you got to go at least 100 or more feet and then the well is what is called shallow and if there are 2 dry years in a row your well is gone. i figure what made these 'drastic changes in this country was when the humans came in here and clear cut the forests . they cut for building material s and stove wood and to clear flies for crops and home steads till they had turned a forest into a semi desert .
Won't work/Ta-Ta!!
Well, if crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight? They never mention that part to us, do they?
George Carlin | | | |
|
claudibee
I will NOT!!
Ogler+
20840 points
Deleted
49/F/, United Kingdom
Join Date: Oct 2008 | iwannano said:
link [hosted.ap.org]
by the year 2012 it will be 65 years the DDT has been contaminating our environment and 83 years the PCB's have.
It really is astounding how little regard our grandparents had for the planet and the natural resources just a few 100 years ago . It seems that a very large percentage of them truly gave no thought to the future and the environment . When the industrial period started and the inventing machines that burned fossil fuel got started all the world thought about in those days was 'those days' . The people did more damages in a couple of centuries then all the millions of years prior .
Damn scary when I think about it.
I agree. Damn scary.
And we're pressed in love's hot, fevered iron like a striped pair of pants - MacArthur Park | | | |
|
iwannano
Monk+
39970 points
49/F/Mountainair area, New Mexico
Join Date: Mar 2008 | claudibee said:
I agree. Damn scary.
those chemicals have been contaminating at least 9 miles of ocean for decades , did you read how quickly and easy they get into the food chain ?
Won't work/Ta-Ta!!
Well, if crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight? They never mention that part to us, do they?
George Carlin | | | |
|
claudibee
I will NOT!!
Ogler+
20840 points
Deleted
49/F/, United Kingdom
Join Date: Oct 2008 | iwannano said:
those chemicals have been contaminating at least 9 miles of ocean for decades , did you read how quickly and easy they get into the food chain ?
Yes. And where else is this type of thing happening? I dread to think what the next decades are going to bring due to global negligence. For instance, I read a book recently about food production, particularly fish, in parts of China. What gets into the water is horrifying. There was also an article in one of today's papers about British chicken and what it contains. World's gone mad.
And we're pressed in love's hot, fevered iron like a striped pair of pants - MacArthur Park | | | |
|
iwannano
Monk+
39970 points
49/F/Mountainair area, New Mexico
Join Date: Mar 2008 | claudibee said:
Yes. And where else is this type of thing happening? I dread to think what the next decades are going to bring due to global negligence. For instance, I read a book recently about food production, particularly fish, in parts of China. What gets into the water is horrifying. There was also an article in one of today's papers about British chicken and what it contains. World's gone mad.
I am no where close to being any more than an I read it some where kind of person .
But the oceansd a the eraths filtering system . and we have been using our oceans as dumps for all the really nasty stuff we don't want setting around in landfills . not to mention all the accidents like oil spills , I remember seeing something about garbage barges taking 100 's of tons of everything garbage out several miles from shore and dumping it . many times over for years .
Won't work/Ta-Ta!!
Well, if crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight? They never mention that part to us, do they?
George Carlin | | | |
|
claudibee
I will NOT!!
Ogler+
20840 points
Deleted
49/F/, United Kingdom
Join Date: Oct 2008 | iwannano said:
I am no where close to being any more than an I read it some where kind of person .
But the oceansd a the eraths filtering system . and we have been using our oceans as dumps for all the really nasty stuff we don't want setting around in landfills . not to mention all the accidents like oil spills , I remember seeing something about garbage barges taking 100 's of tons of everything garbage out several miles from shore and dumping it . many times over for years .
If the oceans are our filtering system and forests are our lungs we've had it. End of.
And we're pressed in love's hot, fevered iron like a striped pair of pants - MacArthur Park | | | |
|
iwannano
Monk+
39970 points
49/F/Mountainair area, New Mexico
Join Date: Mar 2008 | claudibee said:
If the oceans are our filtering system and forests are our lungs we've had it. End of.
Or something I personally find scary as hell . We adapt to the nasty water and polluted air and start needing the grossness like vitamins . I don't watch TV or films and my imagination works fine . sounds pretty nasty and barf inducing to me .
Won't work/Ta-Ta!!
Well, if crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight? They never mention that part to us, do they?
George Carlin | | | |
|
claudibee
I will NOT!!
Ogler+
20840 points
Deleted
49/F/, United Kingdom
Join Date: Oct 2008 | iwannano said:
Or something I personally find scary as hell . We adapt to the nasty water and polluted air and start needing the grossness like vitamins . I don't watch TV or films and my imagination works fine . sounds pretty nasty and barf inducing to me .
It depresses and frightens me in equal measure, reading about what goes on. I try to get involved on a local level but it's never enough.
And we're pressed in love's hot, fevered iron like a striped pair of pants - MacArthur Park | | | |
Top
|
Oct 06, 2009 @ 04:43:46
