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Old Post! Apr 19, 2009 @ 19:25:00#1
WASH

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Green house gas emissions ETC. Consider that most of the "reduction will have to come from our power generating system. Most of which are CO2 coal producing power plants. If we ares serious about CO2 reduction we must VERY seriously consider building neuclear power plants FAST. Over a hundred maybe?
But we have a problem. Congress says NO to nuclear and even coal. So Calidfornia buys its power from other states.
We have a problem. And Congress is it! Senators Feinstein and Boxer, Rep Pelosi, Senator Reid. All RICH and able to afford the future price hike in power consumption we, the public must absorb.
A suggestion! Do what France is doing. It derives 80%+_ of its power from atomic power plants. It sells its excess to Holland and Germnay




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On November 22, 2009
Old Post! Apr 19, 2009 @ 19:40:28#2
jonnythan
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Congress says no to nuke plants because Congresscritters' constituents say "OH MY GOD NO NO NO NO NO AHHHHHHHHO3HT1NGIgn312^!#^T!#^T!#!#^" when it comes to building a nuke plant in their district.

"BUILD MORE NUKES!!!" plus "BUT NOT IN MY BACKYARD!!!" means no new nuke plants.




On November 22, 2009
Old Post! May 14, 2009 @ 19:41:28#3
WASH

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jonnythan said:

Congress says no to nuke plants because Congresscritters' constituents say "OH MY GOD NO NO NO NO NO AHHHHHHHHO3HT1NGIgn312^!#^T!#^T!#!#^" when it comes to building a nuke plant in their district.

"BUILD MORE NUKES!!!" plus "BUT NOT IN MY BACKYARD!!!" means no new nuke plants.


Hysteria! Seems as if France will be going to hell without the proverbial handbasket. And it will be acompanied by its neighbors.



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On November 22, 2009
Old Post! May 20, 2009 @ 04:02:51#4
shinobinoz

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I believe most savings from greenhouse gasses will be with changes in fuels, modifications and beter economy being the easist to accomplish. Nukes are not a good idea based on security and safety. There just is no really good place to put poisons with half-lives longer than man has been on this planet and the concerns for the waste making it into someone's weapon or dirty bomb.

On November 22, 2009
Old Post! May 20, 2009 @ 04:04:47#5
jonnythan
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shinobinoz said:

I believe most savings from greenhouse gasses will be with changes in fuels, modifications and beter economy being the easist to accomplish. Nukes are not a good idea based on security and safety. There just is no really good place to put poisons with half-lives longer than man has been on this planet and the concerns for the waste making it into someone's weapon or dirty bomb.


What's the half life of mercury?

How about lead?



On November 22, 2009
Edited: May 20, 2009 @ 04:05
Old Post! May 20, 2009 @ 04:19:18#6
shinobinoz

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They are quite different problems. I looked up Mercury- one source said 15-30 years IN the body.
Lead 10 months - although my training said if it is in the bone- it's there for good.

Radioactive materials can have half-lives of split seconds and some that are in the thousands of years.

On November 22, 2009
Old Post! May 20, 2009 @ 04:27:33#7
jonnythan
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Those aren't half-lives.

The point is that just because there is radioactive waste material doesn't automatically make it worse.

Yes, a hunk of Pu-239 will remain dangerous for thousands of years because it has a long half life.

But mercury? The half life of elemental mercury is infinite. Mercury as a waste product will continue to be hazardous to humans forever.

You're worried about the nuclear waste because it's radioactive? Well that stuff is stored in sealed containers and presents zero danger to humans unless it's somehow released.

Coal power plants release tons of pure mercury right into the air and water every goddamn year. They're not bottling that s*** up - it's coming right out of the smokestacks, and ends up in our water supplies, in the fish we eat, in the trees, in the grass, in the ground, everywhere.

Yes, nuclear waste sounds scary. But compared to the real dangerous substances that fossil-fuel plants pump directly into our environment every day, nuclear waste is irrelevant.




On November 22, 2009
Old Post! May 20, 2009 @ 04:38:18#8
shinobinoz

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It is not irrevelant. And half-life was what you requested and was googled (you CAN do that your-self you know).
Which is why I stated they were different. Contained mercury i.e. thermometer is the same thing as sealed containers. Guess what- it don't stay sealed.
You refuted your own point and made mine- a thank you very much.
And you did not even dare to venture into the weapons end of your problems.

On November 22, 2009
Old Post! May 20, 2009 @ 04:44:36#9
jonnythan
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shinobinoz said:

It is not irrevelant. And half-life was what you requested and was googled (you CAN do that your-self you know).


I asked you the question to get you to think.

I already knew the answer. The half-life of typical elemental mercury is infinite. It's completely stable.

You seem to be confused about the meaning of half-life when it comes to elements. It has nothing to do with anything biological - it has to do with how long the atoms take to decay into something else. Pu-239 will eventually decay into another element. Mercury stays mercury forever.

So while Pu-239 might have a half-life of 24,000 years, mercury has a half life of infinity.

And Pu-239 coming out of a nuclear reactor gets stored in a sealed container. Mercury coming out of a coal plant goes right into our air, water, and topsoil.

shinobinoz said:
Contained mercury i.e. thermometer is the same thing as sealed containers. Guess what- it don't stay sealed.


It does stay sealed. As far as I know, there has never been any major accident involving the rupture of a sealed nuclear waste container. Perhaps you could point me to one?

shinobinoz said:
You refuted your own point and made mine- a thank you very much.
And you did not even dare to venture into the weapons end of your problems.


I'm not sure what you're talking about. I didn't refute my own point - my point was that fossil-fuel burning plants release incredibly toxic and harmful waste directly into our environment every day. Waste with an infinite half life that stays toxic and harmful until the end of time.

Your only point seems to be that nuclear waste is dangerous when it's released. But it's really not released - it's sealed up and stored away. It would take a major nuclear waste accident to come close to matching the environmental impact that fossil-fuel power plants have every single year.


You say "There just is no really good place to put poisons with half-lives longer than man has been on this planet" but fossil-fuel plants release exactly those poisons directly into the environment.

Mercury has a longer half-life than anything that comes out of a reactor core.



On November 22, 2009
Edited: May 20, 2009 @ 04:48
Old Post! May 20, 2009 @ 05:06:13#10
shinobinoz

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Smoke and mirrors!
First off- I think that coal fired plants should also be phazed out. They do pollute terribly. Mercury is problematic as an element and as a pollutant. Radioactive waste can be more so. Some types can be blocked by a piece of paper- but the same particle when inhaled will cause cancer in the lung. Depends, mixing apples nd oranges is not a good idea when trying to make a one size fits all comparison.
Half lives can be nano-seconds or billions of years. That's can be pretty much for ever- don't ya think?
And yet again- you fail to mention terrorism. It's possibilty looms everywhere with your energy choice.

On November 22, 2009
Old Post! May 20, 2009 @ 05:12:32#11
jonnythan
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OK, coal plants should be phased out.

And replaced with... what?

You say mercury is "problematic" then say radioactive waste "can be more so." Are you considering the fact that mercury is released directly into the environment by the ton and nuclear waste.. isn't?

I'm trying to make you understand that just because something is radioactive doesn't automatically make it worse than stuff that isn't. You still don't seem to get that mercury and lead - both toxic pollutants released directly into the environment by fossil-fuel power plants - have half lives even longer than any radioactive substance created by a nuclear plant and then stored away in sealed containers.

And coal waste has tons of radioactive isotopes in it! Coal plants emit hundreds of times more radioactive waste than nuclear plants!

You keep bringing up terrorism, but that's completely irrelevant. Nuclear plants vs coal plants has nothing whatsoever to do with weapons or terrorism.

I'm going to bed. I don't see any way I could help you more fully understand the science involved. I suck as a teacher.




On November 22, 2009
Edited: May 20, 2009 @ 05:16
Old Post! May 20, 2009 @ 16:23:11#12
WASH

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jonnythan said:

Those aren't half-lives.

The point is that just because there is radioactive waste material doesn't automatically make it worse.

Yes, a hunk of Pu-239 will remain dangerous for thousands of years because it has a long half life.

But mercury? The half life of elemental mercury is infinite. Mercury as a waste product will continue to be hazardous to humans forever.

You're worried about the nuclear waste because it's radioactive? Well that stuff is stored in sealed containers and presents zero danger to humans unless it's somehow released.

Coal power plants release tons of pure mercury right into the air and water every goddamn year. They're not bottling that s*** up - it's coming right out of the smokestacks, and ends up in our water supplies, in the fish we eat, in the trees, in the grass, in the ground, everywhere.

Yes, nuclear waste sounds scary. But compared to the real dangerous substances that fossil-fuel plants pump directly into our environment every day, nuclear waste is irrelevant.


You are right! The French recycle the spent fuel rods and return almost the full weight to be reused.
An atomic power plant IS a clean source of electricity.



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On November 22, 2009
Old Post! May 21, 2009 @ 00:12:02#13
MingLee

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People would do well to read Jonnythan's posts with care and patience because he understands about that which he speaks (posts? writes?). I know that because I've been reading his posts for more than a year, and I don't remember anything about which he got the facts wrong. On the other hand, his manner reminds me of David Rumsfeld, the arrogant Secretary of Defense, in the W Bush Administration who seemed to delight in catching people in their ignorance. Asking about the half life of mercury seems a bit rude because the mercury in coal is not radioactive and therefore has no half-life. On the other hand, it is a clever way of comparing the nuclear reactors' spent fuel, which in not really a pollutant because it doesn't get into the environment, with the mercury in coal, which is a pollutant because it is allowed to get into the environment.

On August 05, 2009
Old Post! May 21, 2009 @ 00:17:34#14
jonnythan
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I don't delight in catching people in their ignorance. I do delight in catching people who try to insist they know a lot more than they do in their ignorance




On November 22, 2009
Old Post! May 21, 2009 @ 01:01:53#15
MingLee

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jonnythan said:

I don't delight in catching people in their ignorance. I do delight in catching people who try to insist they know a lot more than they do in their ignorance



Okay, I believe that, but either way I enjoy reading your posts.
On August 05, 2009
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