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Forum Index > Business & Finance
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bstumbo
Debater
5085 points
61/M/Tiburon, Ca., California
Join Date: Jan 2005 | This thread will not be locked as long as you behave yourself.
I'm not dodging you! I've answered your questions in posts to others. You might try reading instead of blustering.
As I said to Shaggy a long time ago, if you had read it, is that the economic penalty for mismanaging your economy as the U.S. is doing, is a depression. That actually is not the only possible penalty, the other, inflation, can be just as damaging. Perhaps more!
WHEN the U.S. economy chokes, not if, it will undoubtedly take the rest of the world with it. The misery will be worldwide. Of all the countries to own our burgeoning debt, it is China that holds the deed to the United States. Right now they financially own us, soon they will also have the military to take it away from us. (If they don't already)
The American Economy has been carried by the U.S. consumer. They are responsible for 2/3 or more of our GNP. How have they done it ... mostly through the real estate boom and low interest rates. Many have been living above their means, and then refinancing real property at lovely low interest rates to support their habit. Problem is ... the lovely interest rates are slowly but surely disappearing into the past. The practice of living beyond their means is going to come to a screeching halt. When they realize they can't live that way anymore, they will then have to live on the money paid by their McDonalds type jobs that have replaced the high paying jobs that have been sent to India, Taiwan, and guess who ... CHINA ... the people that already own us!
This is only a scratch on the surface ... I haven't even started on the problems. Since I doubt you read these posts anyway, I don't see wasting much more time on you.
Perhaps some of the young people will read this and realize what s**t they're in and start getting rid of our current government. I figure it's already too late, that's why I am practically totally liquidated except for a few necessary holdings. If the s**t hits the fan like I expect it to, I'll refinance to the teeth, and buy everything back at the bankruptcy sales.
If you're looking for me, I'm walking on the beach! |  | | Edited: October 17, 2005 @ 19:32 |  |
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rocket325
Über-Meister
2970 points
52/M/Northwest, Connecticut
Join Date: Sep 2005 | Perhaps some of the young people will read this and realize what s**t they're in and start getting rid of our current government. I figure it's already too late, that's why I am practically totally liquidated except for a few necessary holdings. If the s**t hits the fan like I expect it to, I'll refinance to the teeth, and buy everything back at the bankruptcy sales.
I commend you for the noble attempt at solving the nations financial problems by "getting rid of the current government"...very proactive; spoken like a true democrat!
Using your inflation arguement, are we not in much better shape than many nations who suffer from double digit inflation?
The Mcdonalds analogy is quite simplistic and unrealistic.
Americans are adjusting to the shift in economy from manufacturing to more service oriented. Yes, some markets will take a hit, but we are a resilient country, far from being "owned" by China.
If you are so convinced that it is "too late" for America,
why not pack it in now...head to China, before they "own" us and try to become the land baron you claim to be here!! | | | |
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bstumbo
Debater
5085 points
61/M/Tiburon, Ca., California
Join Date: Jan 2005 | rocket325 said:
I commend you for the noble attempt at solving the nations financial problems by "getting rid of the current government"...very proactive; spoken like a true democrat!
Using your inflation arguement, are we not in much better shape than many nations who suffer from double digit inflation?
Yes, I am very proactive about getting rid of the current administration. They have proven to be most destructive to the American economy. Yes, I am a true patriot, that is for sure!! That doesn't mean I'm going to back it when the populace is as ignorant as apricot jam!
No, our inflation problems have just begun. If you had been keeping up with current events, you would know it has already started. You would also be aware of all the dynamics which are working to flush us down the toilet at high speed. The fact that you know nothing about the seriousness of our debt and who we owe it to only displays how ignorant the American populace has really become. You'll find as time unfolds that ignorance is not bliss!!
rocket325 said:
The Mcdonalds analogy is quite simplistic and unrealistic.
It's simplistic, however it is true! I've watched hundreds of thousands of high tech jobs march across the ocean to our competitors, sent by our very own corporations. They have been replaced by McDonalds and Walmart jobs paying minimum wage with no benefits. Meanwhile, Singapore has become the new BioTech Mecca, while China and Taiwan have taken our manufacturing, and India is now the Software and Data-Mining center.
rocket325 said:
Americans are adjusting to the shift in economy from manufacturing to more service oriented. Yes, some markets will take a hit, but we are a resilient country, far from being "owned" by China.
Read up Maestro, they ALREADY own us. Ignorance doesn't make it go away, the fact still remains.
rocket325 said:
If you are so convinced that it is "too late" for America,
why not pack it in now...head to China, before they "own" us and try to become the land baron you claim to be here!!
I wouldn't be in such a hurry to get rid of me, I'm the one paying your way. My taxes make it possible for you to be "retired". My taxes pay your bills. You better pray I don't move ... you just may learn what it feels like to have to work at McDonalds.
If you're looking for me, I'm walking on the beach! | | | |
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bstumbo
Debater
5085 points
61/M/Tiburon, Ca., California
Join Date: Jan 2005 | reiko said:
The American economy has been growing above 3% the past 9 quarters. I think it will survive.
Hi Reiko,
I just noticed your post.
It's not really not so much as to whether it will survive as much as who is surviving. The growth of the economy as you are looking at it has really been supported by two main elements ... actually three.
Low interest rates have kept the construction boom going hot and strong. The housing boom has been the major part of it. Everyone is trying to get the american dream before it is too late. In terms of our own infrastructure ... highways, road repair, ma** transit and the like ... we aren't doing much. We can't afford to! One of my clients is a construction outfit that does exactly these type of jobs. They have been around this area since the 1906 quake. They can't get work. They have been losing over $100,000 per month for two years now. The high quality help has found other jobs before it is too late. They have laid off more top people. They have hired back people with a lot less experience for a lot less money, but these lower qualified people cannot get them the jobs they need to exist. It's like I asked our friend the civil servant ... How long can you spend more money than you make without some kind of economic penalty ?? He doesn't get it, because he's always had the taxpayer to pay his way. My client does have to worry about it because they are competing in the real world.
Government spending has hit all time highs for years. The government keeps spending, therby flushing "borrowed" dollars into the sysytem. During the same time, the income base is being slashed ... through tax cuts for the rich, and job loss of high paying jobs. Meanwhile we rebuild Iraq a new infrastructure while ours rots. Now we have to rebuild the South because of the destruction there. That's another 200 Billion. We don't have the income to support these costs, so we have to "borrow it". How long can you spend more money than you make without some kind of economic penalty ??
The consumer has been carrying the economy on their backs during most of the Bush term. With interest rates on the rise, it won't be so easy to refinance out of debt occurred from living beyond their means. With interest rates on the rise, we're already seeing the cutback in new housing starts and new construction. Houses in the super hot real estate aren't selling as fast ... matter of fact ... sales are decreasing. Without the cash cow, the construction boom, there will be a massive hole develop in the tax income stream. How long can you spend more money than you make without some kind of economic penalty ??
If you're looking for me, I'm walking on the beach! | | | |
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bstumbo
Debater
5085 points
61/M/Tiburon, Ca., California
Join Date: Jan 2005 | ACTUALLY THERE ARE QUITE A FEW
link [www.norway.org]
News
Norway tops UN quality-of-life index
For the fourth year in a row, a United Nations study has ranked Norway as the best place to live in the world. The index ranks nations according to income, life expectancy and education levels.
7/16/2004 :: Every summer, the United Nations Development Program issues a thorough, state-of-the-world-like report in which the world's countries are ranked according to the Human Development Index, a system for determining standard of living. This year, as in the previous three, Norway tops the list, while neighboring Sweden has climbed one spot to number two.
The UNDP has created the index in order to measure the extent of human development in countries around the world. In the report's foreword, its authors write that in order to reach the UN's Millennium Goals, countries must strive to become inclusive, culturally diverse societies.
"Human development is first and foremost about allowing people to lead the kind of life they choose—and providing them with the tools and opportunities to make those choices," the report reads.
High average income
The report states that Norway has a life expectancy of 79 years and a school enrollment ratio of 98 percent.
As usual, industrialized nations figure heavily in the top 20, with the United States coming in at eighth place, and the United Kingdom at 12th. At the bottom of the list, for the seventh year in a row, lies Sierra Leone, still suffering from the consequences of civil war.
Norway tops the list, the report argues, because of its high wealth combined with a small population. The average income in Norway is, according to the report, a staggering USD 36,600. Only Luxembourg, with an average income of USD 61,190 can top that. In comparison, Sweden's average income is USD 26,050, while that of Ethiopia is USD 780.
Millennium Goals
But the report is not primarily created as a way of seeing how well the already rich countries fare when compared to each other. More imporantly, the report shows how far the United Nations have come in implementing the Millennium Goals that were agreed upon in 2000. See the link on the right hand side for more information on these goals.
The 2004 report shows disturbing signs that development is actually in reversal in 20 of the world's nations. 13 of these lie in sub-Saharan Africa. According to the report, the main reason for this reversal is the ongoing HIV/AIDS crisis. Life expectancy in eight of the sub-Saharan nations has now fallen below 40 years because of the disease.
"The Aids crisis cripples states at all levels because the disease attacks people in their most productive years," Mark Malloch Brown, head of the UNDP, told the BBC.
Read the full report by clicking the UNDP link on the right.
The top 20:
1. Norway
2. Sweden
3. Australia
4. Canada
5. Netherlands
6. Belgium
7. Iceland
8. United States
9. Japan
10. Ireland
11. Switzerland
12. Britain
13. Finland
14. Austria
15. Luxembourg
16. France
17. Denmark
18. New Zealand
19. Germany
20. Spain
Kristoffer Rønneberg
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If you're looking for me, I'm walking on the beach! | | | | Edited: October 19, 2005 @ 20:29 | |
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Oct 17, 2005 @ 18:10:50
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