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Forum Index > Society & Lifestyles > History
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MingLee
Mega Über-Meister
4033 points
Deleted
13/F/Anaheim, California
Join Date: Jan 2009 | Mendeleev would be on any list of the most important innovations, and a list of most creative authors would include Tolstoy and Dostoevsky. So on a list of the 4,000 cultures in order of creativity, Russian might be near the top. However, I live in a sort of ghetto of immigrants. People from Russia talk about how during the cold war on almost any subject, Russia came off second best, and Russian newspapers often printed stories about how things were invented in Russia. According to one Babushka, she read an article claiming that jazz didn't come up the Mississippi, but rather up the Volga. American humorists have turned this idea into a stereotype. For example, early episodes of Star Trek have a Russian character, Chekov, who claims things are Russian wentshun, sometimes spelled inwention. |  | |
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MingLee
Mega Über-Meister
4033 points
Deleted
13/F/Anaheim, California
Join Date: Jan 2009 | karljkampovsky said:
You mentioned banks in your opening post! Actually banks could be said to have started in medieval times!
Yes, the most common bank mentioned as the first bank is the Bank of Venice. I think I read at least one source that says the first bank was the Bank of Sweden. Of course, archaeologists, who dig through Babylonian ruins, have found banking documents on clay tablets. The thing that makes the Venetian bank a modern bank is the fact that the customers could write checks. The Parable of the Talants in the New Testament suggests that savings banks must have existed during the Roman Empire.
I put banks on the list because they didn't exist in North America before the American Revolution, at least not in the colonies that became the United States. I suppose banks could have existed in any of the other dozen or so British colonies. In one sense, banks did exist because some merchants performed some to the functions of banks. The first bank that I know of in North America was the Bank of the United States formed by the Continental Congress near the end of the Revolutionary War. The first real bank must have been the Bank of New York. And the second might have been the Manhattan Bank which is now part of JP Morgan Chase. The third (or maybe the second) might have been The United States Bank chartered by the Congress. Anyway, banks were not common at the beginning of the 44th century. As of right now, they are the most common form of publicly traded corporation. | | | |
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curiouskat
Minister+
10381 points
30/F/Adelaide, Australia
Join Date: May 2009 | Wow hun!
I just learned more from your post than i ever did in school!
It is crazy that during this past century there has been some unreal quantum leaps in technology hey?
I often consider the length of time we were uncivilised or unevolving (not sure what fits there best) compared to how far we have come so fast.
I dont know whether this has alot to do with it or is just a small factor, but i read that when we began to eat meat, our brains developed at rate much faster than had done so in history, so im wondering did this sped things along.
But, i also read a book years ago that said there was civilised man much further back than we give credit for (they found an empire buried deep under Pakistan in an area called the Indus valley, thought to be as old as 28,000 yrs old) and that natural disaster and climate change wiped the majority out, forcing the rest to migrate and start building again.
Theres odd gaps all over history and the evolutionary chain and it could be open for speculation that we were indeed much more advanced much further back than now given credit for...
Umm, i just totally got off the point, oops! You made me think too much!
A cat is more intelligent than people believe, and can be taught any crime.-Mark Twain | | | |
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curiouskat
Minister+
10381 points
30/F/Adelaide, Australia
Join Date: May 2009 | MingLee said:
People may disagree about the definition of civilization. If fine art is necessary for civilization, then the European cave paintings 5,000 years ago might be the beginning. China has interesting rock paintings, but I don't think that they compare in quality to the European paintings. If living in a city is civilized then Jericho, a city in Palestine, may be the first city at 10,000 years ago. If literature is necessary for civilization, then the beginning of written language in Egypt or Irag, 5500 years ago could be the beginning of civilization.
Oh hun, we have Aboriginal cave paintings here in Suth Australia that are known to be much much older than 5,000 yrs.
My memory is fuzzy, but i believe them to be around 25,000 yrs old
They had symbols for all kinds of ceremonial rituals, from the killing of animals for food, through to coming of age ceremonies for boys. Very magical and most definitly civilised in my eyes at least.
In my own humble opinion, civilisation can be defined by any kind of community living where men work together for the greater good of its people. The Indus valley tribes had a community of buildings with sophisticated sewerage systems, they grew crops and their artwork was all but destroyed by the invading Persians, but is known to exist.I know the dating methods can be incorrect, but i still believe civilisation was around much further back than school text books give credit for.
Im also surprised that Chinas only go back 5,000 years, i would have put them back much further on the time line. They managed to preserve their writings beter than any other nation..
A cat is more intelligent than people believe, and can be taught any crime.-Mark Twain | | | |
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MingLee
Mega Über-Meister
4033 points
Deleted
13/F/Anaheim, California
Join Date: Jan 2009 | curiouskat said:
Oh hun, we have Aboriginal cave paintings here in Suth Australia that are known to be much much older than 5,000 yrs.
My memory is fuzzy, but i believe them to be around 25,000 yrs old
They had symbols for all kinds of ceremonial rituals, from the killing of animals for food, through to coming of age ceremonies for boys. Very magical and most definitly civilised in my eyes at least.
In my own humble opinion, civilisation can be defined by any kind of community living where men work together for the greater good of its people. The Indus valley tribes had a community of buildings with sophisticated sewerage systems, they grew crops and their artwork was all but destroyed by the invading Persians, but is known to exist.I know the dating methods can be incorrect, but i still believe civilisation was around much further back than school text books give credit for.
Im also surprised that Chinas only go back 5,000 years, i would have put them back much further on the time line. They managed to preserve their writings beter than any other nation..
When I said the age of European cave paintings, I meant to say 12,000 years old, and the same for China. I've seen old rock paintings from Australia too. I know that human art forms existed before that time, but I think that the paintings like at Altamira and Lascaux might be the first masterpiece art forms.
Here is one rock painting at Dugat in China. It is a picture (see fig. 7) of encircle hunting . The picture on the website is too small to see the details, but the caption tells the story.
"At least 3 bloody cattle lay on the ground, shot by spears; another five cattle and horses remained standing, but had been struck by spears and were under attack. Some of the people in this picture hold triangular shields, some hold clubs, some are even disguised as beasts. One should note that there are no bows and arrows in the painting. Around the hunting scene are patterns composed of parallel red lines, arcs and triangles; and many hand and foot prints, which means the victory would belong to the hunters. Except for the small number of geometric figures that we are not able to explain, the theme of the painting is quite clear: it was a record of or a prayer for a successful hunt."
The painting is realistic in that it tells a story. The paintings at Altimira are abstract. The painting at Dugat contains information, so one might argue that, while it is not the beginning of art, since it contains information, it is the beginning of literature.
Here is a painting done by George Caitlin in 1832 It’s a painting of American Indians hunting while disguised as animals, sort of like the hunters at Dugat. | | | | Edited: June 20, 2009 @ 16:17 |  |
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Mar 01, 2009 @ 15:00:39
