rozenkatze said:
Okay, there seems to be a VAST amount of misinformation as to what "Goth Music" actually means. I'm aware there is a lot of ambiguity - but it doesn't change that there are some things that definitely *are* goth, or relevant to goth, and things that aren't.

Most of the bands discussed here aren't even "goth friendly" bands - bands that take genuine influence from goth rock bands and fit in somewhat despite standing out(Smashing Pumpkins, Tori Amos, Dresden Dolls are three I can think of right now).

I'll start by defining what goth music is NOT:

Marilyn Manson
Cradle of Filth
Korn
Slipknot
The HIM

Just about ANYTHING that teens who are also into those bands are into probably isn't goth.

Goth isn't "Something different for every person" anymore than punk is. Goth is a umbrella that applies to several specific things that work together in a particular collection of styles. There are some things that fit under it, as they have *come out of* the scene or been heavily influenced out of it, and things that don't, as they are near-oblivious to it(or at least their fans are).

Goth is a musical style that was derived from punk and evolved to more traditional "gothic" aspects like choirs, organs and pianos, as well as often having some electro elements.

I'll over-simplify goth into a few subsections -

The influencing artists behind goth rock were the Doors, the Velvet Underground, and David Bowie, as well as (obviously) punk. The combination of punk with the ideas of these artists as well as the general evolution of the genre quickly led to:

Post-punk(basically rock/punk with some elements of the genres below):

Siouxsie and the Banshees
The Cure
Joy Division
The Chameleons

Most of these were in the late 70s, with the exception of the Chameleons(who are a double anachronism for combining the 70s post punk sound with the 90s indie sound).

Goth never really had a name to begin with; until someone described Joy Division's performance as "gothic", meaning it as an insult. Somehow, the name stuck.

Soon, post-punk led to the rise of:

Goth Rock(clangy, jangly guitars, spooky vocals, occasional use of spooky synths, lots of reverb, quite a bit of chorus/other effects):

Bauhaus (1979+)
The Sisters of Mercy(as much as they refuse it, 1980+)
The Mission (split off from the above, 1984+)
Specimen (1979+)
Alien Sex Fiend (really a bit more like Electro Punk, but they were part of this scene and they rocked, 1983+)

Death Rock (an evolution of the above; a style of rock music with bleak themes that often includes electronic elements or even heavier guitar effects, more processed sound than Goth Rock):

Christian Death (1979-80s)
Gun Club(both of these were original Death Rock, emerging in '79)
Bella Morte (2000s)
Cinema Strange(and these two are more part of the "revival"

Darkwave/Electro Goth(Goth music that's kind of a bit like depressing dance music, and goth music that's based more around electronic elements as opposed to just having them):

Switchblade Symphony (1991+)
Machine in the Garden (2000s)
Diva Destruction (2000s)
Collide (2000s)

Industrial(Industrial is NOT technically goth, but is linked with it; a cold, harsh, often metallic sound with lots of synthwankery):

Throbbing Gristle (though they're really more expriemental, it's them that coined the phrase)
NON
Monte Cazazza
The Skeptics

(these are pulled from Wikipedia as to be honest, even I'm confused with Industrial, but this is where the term comes from).

EBM/Futurepop is often what people call "industrial"; and is even further out there; check out Assemblage 23, Syrian for electro goodness.

Ethereal/Folk/World(Mystic ambient s*** and organic textures):

Dead Can Dance (1982+)
Black Tape for a Blue Girl (1984+)
(some) Faith and the Muse (1994+)
Rhea's Obsession (2000s)

The most famous Ethereal band is actually "Enigma", but they're not gothic Ethereal.

All dates are approx as I can't be arsed researching them exactly.

Basically, if you check into those bands, and the subculture revolving around those bands, you'll get an idea of what "goth" is.

It just annoys me when probably one of the greatest and most creative musical scenes of all time just gets overwritten with what are essentially just spooky metal bands.

Well, I hope this clears it up.

rozenkatze said:

Okay, there seems to be a VAST amount of misinformation as to what "Goth Music" actually means. I'm aware there is a lot of ambiguity - but it doesn't change that there are some things that definitely *are* goth, or relevant to goth, and things that aren't.

Most of the bands discussed here aren't even "goth friendly" bands - bands that take genuine influence from goth rock bands and fit in somewhat despite standing out(Smashing Pumpkins, Tori Amos, Dresden Dolls are three I can think of right now).

I'll start by defining what goth music is NOT:

Marilyn Manson
Cradle of Filth
Korn
Slipknot
HIM

Just about ANYTHING that teens who are also into those bands are into probably isn't goth.

Goth isn't "Something different for every person" anymore than punk is. Goth is a umbrella that applies to several specific things that work together in a particular collection of styles. There are some things that fit under it, as they have *come out of* the scene or been heavily influenced out of it, and things that don't, as they are near-oblivious to it(or at least their fans are).

Goth is a musical style that was derived from punk and evolved to more traditional "gothic" aspects like choirs, organs and pianos, as well as often having some electro elements.

I'll over-simplify goth into a few subsections -

The influencing artists behind goth rock were the Doors, the Velvet Underground, and David Bowie, as well as (obviously) punk. The combination of punk with the ideas of these artists as well as the general evolution of the genre quickly led to:

Post-punk(basically rock/punk with some elements of the genres below):

Siouxsie and the Banshees
The Cure
Joy Division
The Chameleons

Most of these were in the late 70s, with the exception of the Chameleons(who are a double anachronism for combining the 70s post punk sound with the 90s indie sound).

Goth never really had a name to begin with; until someone described Joy Division's performance as "gothic", meaning it as an insult. Somehow, the name stuck.

Soon, post-punk led to the rise of:

Goth Rock(clangy, jangly guitars, spooky vocals, occasional use of spooky synths, lots of reverb, quite a bit of chorus/other effects):

Bauhaus (1979+)
The Sisters of Mercy(as much as they refuse it, 1980+)
The Mission (split off from the above, 1984+)
Specimen (1979+)
Alien Sex Fiend (really a bit more like Electro Punk, but they were part of this scene and they rocked, 1983+)

Death Rock (an evolution of the above; a style of rock music with bleak themes that often includes electronic elements or even heavier guitar effects, more processed sound than Goth Rock):

Christian Death (1979-80s)
Gun Club(both of these were original Death Rock, emerging in '79)
Bella Morte (2000s)
Cinema Strange(and these two are more part of the "revival"

Darkwave/Electro Goth(Goth music that's kind of a bit like depressing dance music, and goth music that's based more around electronic elements as opposed to just having them):

Switchblade Symphony (1991+)
Machine in the Garden (2000s)
Diva Destruction (2000s)
Collide (2000s)

Industrial(Industrial is NOT technically goth, but is linked with it; a cold, harsh, often metallic sound with lots of synthwankery):

Throbbing Gristle (though they're really more expriemental, it's them that coined the phrase)
NON
Monte Cazazza
The Skeptics

(these are pulled from Wikipedia as to be honest, even I'm confused with Industrial, but this is where the term comes from).

EBM/Futurepop is often what people call "industrial"; and is even further out there; check out Assemblage 23, Syrian for electro goodness.

Ethereal/Folk/World(Mystic ambient s*** and organic textures):

Dead Can Dance (1982+)
Black Tape for a Blue Girl (1984+)
(some) Faith and the Muse (1994+)
Rhea's Obsession (2000s)

The most famous Ethereal band is actually "Enigma", but they're not gothic Ethereal.

All dates are approx as I can't be arsed researching them exactly.

Basically, if you check into those bands, and the subculture revolving around those bands, you'll get an idea of what "goth" is.

It just annoys me when probably one of the greatest and most creative musical scenes of all time just gets overwritten with what are essentially just spooky metal bands.

Well, I hope this clears it up.