I ask because after Vader rises to his feet afterPalpatine delivers his first volley of lightning into Luke in Return of the Jedi, Palpatine seems to look off to one side and says...
'Young fool. Only now, at the end, do you understand.
He then turn back to Luke to assault him again. As Luke falls to the floor from the attack and Vader approaches his master, Palpatine says,
'Your feeble skills are no match for the power of the dark side. You have paid the price for your lack of vision.'
I get the impression he was saying these things to Vader because Luke would have had no use for such commentary, since he was going to die. As a very pragmatic individual, I think Palpatine was laughing at Vader with the first dialogue and reminding him of his inadequacies in the second.
But I'd rather leave the this issue up for debate. Please share your thoughts.
Makes sense. Palpatine would have known that Vader was trying to turn his son into a Sith Lord and was mocking him for his failed attempt.
It would interesting to think about what he meant. In the first phrase, was Palpatine claiming that Vader realizing his son couldn't be turned until he had seen with his own eyes before his master to be a critical weakness worthy of scorn?
In the second, was he saying that the price for Vader's shortcoming was to watch his son die and that Luke's death was his fault because he could have seen it coming, since Luke was unreceptive to turning to the dark side?
I don't see that at all. Seems pretty straight forward to me. Palpatine is gloating to Luke that he did not win and could not win. That is why it is unexpected when Vader turns and throws him down the shaft.
I don't see that at all. Seems pretty straight forward to me. Palpatine is gloating to Luke that he did not win and could not win. That is why it is unexpected when Vader turns and throws him down the shaft.
It's not as straightforward as that. The Expanded Universe has been relegated to "legacy" status and is no longer considered canon, but I think a lot about the relationship between Palpatine and Vader could be inferred from the EU.
Palpatine knew that Vader wanted to train Luke to be a Sith and then kill Palpatine. He tried it many times with many different apprentices (Starkiller, Lumiya etc).
Palpatine was talking to Vader and showing him that he failed.
I ask because after Vader rises to his feet afterPalpatine delivers his first volley of lightning into Luke in Return of the Jedi, Palpatine seems to look off to one side and says...
'Young fool. Only now, at the end, do you understand.
He then turn back to Luke to assault him again. As Luke falls to the floor from the attack and Vader approaches his master, Palpatine says,
'Your feeble skills are no match for the power of the dark side. You have paid the price for your lack of vision.'
I get the impression he was saying these things to Vader because Luke would have had no use for such commentary, since he was going to die. As a very pragmatic individual, I think Palpatine was laughing at Vader with the first dialogue and reminding him of his inadequacies in the second.
But I'd rather leave the this issue up for debate. Please share your thoughts.
It's not as straightforward as that. The Expanded Universe has been relegated to "legacy" status and is no longer considered canon, but I think a lot about the relationship between Palpatine and Vader could be inferred from the EU.
Palpatine knew that Vader wanted to train Luke to be a Sith and then kill Palpatine. He tried it many times with many different apprentices (Starkiller, Lumiya etc).
Palpatine was talking to Vader and showing him that he failed.
Okay, maybe I am being a bit of a nerd about this, however......
Here is the youtube link to watch for yourselves... (I wrote out the lines and part of the stage direction). I never see EP look off to the side at Vader. And it would be completely out of context for EP to be talking to Vader on just those couple lines, when he did nothing of the sort earlier. And the EU can piss off, that prob came out after this movie anyway.
Right after Luke cuts off Vader’s hand. Vader is not saying anything, bunched up like a baby on the floor....
EP(to Luke): Good… your hate has made you powerful. Now, fulfill your destiny and take your fathers place at my side.
Luke: Never, I’ll never turn to the darkside. You’ve failed your highness. I am a Jedi like my father before me.
EP: So be it, Jedi. If you will not be turned, you will be destroyed. (shoots Luke with lightning). (Vader finally gets up) (EP does not look at Vader) Young fool, only now at the end, do you understand? (shoots Luke again) Your feeble skills are no match for the power of the darkside. (Vader is standing behind EP as EP shoots Luke again) You will pay the price for your lack of vision.
(While being shot) Luke: Father, please.
EP: Now young Skywalker, you will die. (EP starts zapping Luke again)
(Vader starts the whole ping pong thing of looking at Luke and back to EP while the music swells, the grabs EP and throws him into the pit)
I still would like to maintain that Palpatine would not waste his breath on Luke. I think that he was wanting to see if Vader would take a verbal thrashing and still remain loyal to him. True, he wasn't looking in Vader's direction when he spoke the first lines, nor the following ones, but if Luke was going to pass, why should Palpatine address them to him? He was going to perish, so no objective would be achieved by Palpatine directing such words at him.
I still would like to maintain that Palpatine would not waste his breath on Luke. I think that he was wanting to see if Vader would take a verbal thrashing and still remain loyal to him. True, he wasn't looking in Vader's direction when he spoke the first lines, nor the following ones, but if Luke was going to pass, why should Palpatine address them to him? He was going to perish, so no objective would be achieved by Palpatine directing such words at him.
I think it was just the whole villain gloating thing that is done in most movies and TV
I don't see that at all. Seems pretty straight forward to me. Palpatine is gloating to Luke that he did not win and could not win. That is why it is unexpected when Vader turns and throws him down the shaft.
I'd like to take this thread in a different direction. When Palpatine was increasing the output of his force lightning, after Vader looks at him the first time, Palpatine grits his teeth hard and the hatred in his eyes greatly intensifies.
I think one of the reasons Vader turned on his master was perhaps because the Emperor was broadcasting angry thoughts, not only toward Luke, but toward Vader as well. I imagine them as something like this.
'You fool! You and your son could've had everything! All you had to do was kill me and the two of you could've inherited an empire and made it what you wanted it to be! Now this boy is going to die because you were so blind and you'll have lost the biggest opportunity of your lives.
Is this what was going through his mind? What feelings do you think the emperor was expressing at this time?