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Forum Index: News & Politics: Abortion
The Alpha Moment
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New Post! Jan 19, 2010 @ 17:45:42#31
kentoo

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"Rights" are established by our moral compass, be it individually or collectively as in a society. The "Alpha moment" is established by agreement.

On February 04, 2010
New Post! Jan 19, 2010 @ 17:46:49#32
sheepy

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I would say when the nervous system has developed enough for the baby/fetus to in theory experience thought and feelings and hurt etc.
Just because a fetus is reliant on the mother who is carrying "it" doesn't mean it isn't human - no different to someone on a life support machine really.

Also just because people don't remember being in the womb, it doesn't mean they aren't thinking and experiencing things. They wake/sleep, react to noise, and there is a very good chance (though not one we can prove) that they are engaged in pretty rational thought.

When does a person aquire rights? Well that's convention according to the society they're in. Many societies still execute people, some backward societies may abort right up to almost the moment of birth.

When does something become "human" - surely that should be conception because those clusters of cells aren't horse or do we mean when does a fetus become worthy of rights - well I'd say that should be at the moment of rational thought/awareness. So you think it's birth, I think it's probably earlier. The current abortion limit of 24weeks is then possibly not a bad indicator. Definately don't want to turn this debate into the wrongs/rights of abortion. Or could that be the idea? Suppose it's linked to the question really - it has to be for anyone to decide at what point in the cycle of pregnancy abortion is definately morally wrong

On March 20, 2010
New Post! Jan 19, 2010 @ 17:50:21#33
buffalobill90
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sheepy said:
When does a person aquire rights? Well that's convention according to the society they're in. Many societies still execute people, some backward societies may abort right up to almost the moment of birth.



Actually that's done in the UK if the mother's life is at risk.
On March 21, 2010
New Post! Jan 19, 2010 @ 18:07:39#34
sheepy

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buffalobill90 said:

Actually that's done in the UK if the mother's life is at risk.



Really? I didn't know that. Well, it's probably a very sensible and logical thing come to think of it - though lets face it, if it was REALLY near full term - say aborting a couple of weeks or a month before birth wouldn't really be aborting as such, more than early labour - the baby would more than likely survive.

Edit, now I think about it, I read that some anti abortion militants would rather let the mother die as "the baby is the future and the mother is the past", and frankly there isn't enough words to show the contempt that really deserves
On March 20, 2010
Edited: January 19, 2010 @ 18:09
New Post! Jan 19, 2010 @ 18:10:15#35
buffalobill90
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sheepy said:

Really? I didn't know that. Well, it's probably a very sensible and logical thing come to think of it - though lets face it, if it was REALLY near full term - say aborting a couple of weeks or a month before birth wouldn't really be aborting as such, more than early labour - the baby would more than likely survive.



No, the baby would not survive the abortion; it doesn't just mean removing the foetus from the womb, it means killing it. If the foetus survived it would just be a c-section.
On March 21, 2010
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New Post! Jan 19, 2010 @ 20:38:16#36
sheepy

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Hmmmm ok. So the procedure is killing a nearly ready for birth baby/fetus. Not sure what to think of that really, it doesn't seem right in so many ways but I'm not the expert.

On March 20, 2010
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