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Forum Index > News & Politics > Abortion
>> Strict Oklahoma abortion laws spark court battles
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New Post! Oct 24, 2009 @ 11:16:25#16
iwannano

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Coleosis said:

I wasnt directing that at you, sorry if it came off that way. I see what you mean with the gov's envolvement. At the same time, is there another medical procedure that does nothing but stop the chances of survival for something? Other than euthanizing and animal or criminal. Even if you argue that it isnt a person yet, it still reduces the chances of it becomine a living human from 100%-1% to an absolute 0%. Its definately a delicate subject, but in my opinion, I like the idea of both making the woman in positiion to see the ultrasound screen, and the questionaire.


No apology needed. I have learnt that it's better to clarify any thing that may be troublesome when the topic is controversial.
I personally believe lie begins at conception. I am pro choice first, because abortions have been happening since before recorded history as it is now it is done in a clean medically supervised environment instead of some dirty back alley with a knitting needle. second , I believe as an American the freedom to pursue happiness and freedom of speech etc.... means I will tolerate someone shouting at the top of there lungs something that twists my head or of someone living or doing something they believe to be their freedom to choose to do. Has a copy of the questionnaire been made [public? I have looked around looking for some hint what questions are on it. There are something like 17 states that have the ultrasound deal minus tho forcing the doctor to do a play by play and forcing the woman to watch, I don't get that at all, if she has made the decision to terminate she knows it's not a puppy or a toy car or a pickle she's decided to terminate .Like I said I believe life begins at conception and I heard about every reason that some believe it doesn't with that said the woman knows she is there to terminate a pregnancy that if given 9 months will produce a child what advantage is their suppose to be by making her watch a ultrasound? Is it just about the money the test will add to the overall cost? Or is it suppose to be some sort of mind F**k ? I'm not understanding this.


Coleosis said:

They need examples of how they intend on posting the information. If they plan on just scanning the questionaire, blacking out the name and posting it online, then I do not agree with posting it online. If it is just one of those "73% of women who have abortions are black 11thgrade dropouts that dont have a relationship with the father." Then I agree with the statistics being public.

Why would anyone need to or want to know the statistics on abortions in 1 out 50 states? If it was a deal where all 50 states posted the info then I could maybe see the reason but for 1 state to make public the age ,the type of payment , education etc... of every woman who has an abortion really does sound more like intimidation by the gov. then anything resembling 'information for the good of the general public ' If they was to use the info to setup programs to help the "11th grade dropouts that dint have a relationship with the father." before they become part of that list I could maybe understand a reason for it. but nothing about helping or educating is part of the deal.IMO




Coleosis said:

Thats the biggest load of bulls*** ever. Over 3.5 million people live in Oklahoma. If it doesnt state more than age, race, educational level, marital status, cost of abortion, and marital status...no one is going to be able to pick you out of the over 6,000 abortions in Oklahoma each year. Unless you got a really good deal and you went around bragging about how much you paid to have an abortion.


If the numbers are already known "6,000 abortions in Oklahoma each year" why this new laws ?
Is it the plan to make it so difficult for that 'over 6000 women to have an abortion done in that 1 state they just go to the next state by default , so then in a year all the sudden Oklahoma will be strutting around crowing that their laws work because now the number of abortions will have dropped from 6000 to 53 a year ?

I'm just asking and trying to understand whats behind these laws and th law makers thoughts .



Won't work/Ta-Ta!!
Well, if crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight? They never mention that part to us, do they?
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On November 22, 2009
New Post! Oct 24, 2009 @ 11:57:39#17
Coleosis
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iwannano said:

No apology needed. I have learnt that it's better to clarify any thing that may be troublesome when the topic is controversial.
I personally believe lie begins at conception. I am pro choice first, because abortions have been happening since before recorded history as it is now it is done in a clean medically supervised environment instead of some dirty back alley with a knitting needle. second , I believe as an American the freedom to pursue happiness and freedom of speech etc.... means I will tolerate someone shouting at the top of there lungs something that twists my head or of someone living or doing something they believe to be their freedom to choose to do. Has a copy of the questionnaire been made [public? I have looked around looking for some hint what questions are on it. There are something like 17 states that have the ultrasound deal minus tho forcing the doctor to do a play by play and forcing the woman to watch, I don't get that at all, if she has made the decision to terminate she knows it's not a puppy or a toy car or a pickle she's decided to terminate .Like I said I believe life begins at conception and I heard about every reason that some believe it doesn't with that said the woman knows she is there to terminate a pregnancy that if given 9 months will produce a child what advantage is their suppose to be by making her watch a ultrasound? Is it just about the money the test will add to the overall cost? Or is it suppose to be some sort of mind F**k ? I'm not understanding this.



Why would anyone need to or want to know the statistics on abortions in 1 out 50 states? If it was a deal where all 50 states posted the info then I could maybe see the reason but for 1 state to make public the age ,the type of payment , education etc... of every woman who has an abortion really does sound more like intimidation by the gov. then anything resembling 'information for the good of the general public ' If they was to use the info to setup programs to help the "11th grade dropouts that dint have a relationship with the father." before they become part of that list I could maybe understand a reason for it. but nothing about helping or educating is part of the deal.IMO






If the numbers are already known "6,000 abortions in Oklahoma each year" why this new laws ?
Is it the plan to make it so difficult for that 'over 6000 women to have an abortion done in that 1 state they just go to the next state by default , so then in a year all the sudden Oklahoma will be strutting around crowing that their laws work because now the number of abortions will have dropped from 6000 to 53 a year ?

I'm just asking and trying to understand whats behind these laws and th law makers thoughts .



The statistics are to educate the people. Posting them online would make it easier to obtain the statistics. Me being pro life, I am for anything that would make them second guess thier decesion to abort. If they dont want to take the questionaire, then they can drive and have a few hours to think about it.

I think the ultrasound is a good idea so that they see what they are about to dispose of like a wart. They get to see exactly what it looks like.

I do agree with you that it does seem like a mind f***, but like I said...I am for anything that might make them second guess thier decision. I dont agree with making the rape victims see the ultrasound, but I do think it would be educational to have the statistics on how many people get abortions from rape due to one night stands, failed relationships, and just inconvinience.



On November 22, 2009
New Post! Oct 24, 2009 @ 12:43:38#18
iwannano

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Coleosis said:

The statistics are to educate the people. Posting them online would make it easier to obtain the statistics. Me being pro life, I am for anything that would make them second guess thier decesion to abort. If they dont want to take the questionaire, then they can drive and have a few hours to think about it.

I think the ultrasound is a good idea so that they see what they are about to dispose of like a wart. They get to see exactly what it looks like.

I do agree with you that it does seem like a mind f***, but like I said...I am for anything that might make them second guess thier decision. I dont agree with making the rape victims see the ultrasound, but I do think it would be educational to have the statistics on how many people get abortions from rape due to one night stands, failed relationships, and just inconvinience.


One time years ago I had a cowoker she was in her early 30's never been married and no kids.and one day we were just chatting about kids at the time my youngest was about 14 and as any healthy 14 year ols female child will do she was driving me crazy because she was 14. anyways , this co worker says she didn't want kids ever an dunb ole me started saying things like good ,it's good to no that and take precautions to make sure blah blah , and then she looks at me like I'm from mars and says shes had 6 abortions . And then drops the real bomb by saying that
Quote:
for women like me abortions my birth control

You could have knock me down with a feather., like a dummy I ask WTF haven't you ever heard of the pill or rubbers ? she just laughed and replied why bother with having to remember to take a damn pill and why take all Th enjoyment out of the act by using a rubber when an abortion was so cheap and quick ? I'll tell you i made damn sure my 14 year old girl did not spend anytime around the co worker without me being right there . I didn't think her attitude would infect my daughter like a disease or did i think she was just waiting to pounce on my kid and try to make think the same way , but as a mother of a 14 year girl I was very uncomfortable thinking of trying to explain something to my girl that made no sense to me.
Sorry I went off on a ramble..

Okay back on topic .
Who has the right to 'make' the women take the questionnaire or watch the ultrasound .If a woman says f**k the questionnaire, and keeps her eyes closed for the duration of the ultrasound test ,what happens then ? Is the doctor legally bound to refuse her the medical procedure? Can a doctor be legally bound by law to refuse an adult If she is over 18 and refuses both and the doctor does the abortion anyways , will one or both go to jail ?
In America it suppose to work like this .
I have the right to be Pro choice, you have the right to be Pro life and (not the co worker) another has the right to be Pro abortion but none of us has the right to tell the other they are wrong or try to change their mind or stop them from peaceful protest or making a decision to terminate.
How does the State gov.plan to side step or get around the '
The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA) Privacy Rule ' ?

And last but not least, if a woman for whatever reason has made the decision the she won't or can't deal with raising a child ,who has the right to tell her she has to ?



Won't work/Ta-Ta!!
Well, if crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight? They never mention that part to us, do they?
George Carlin
On November 22, 2009
New Post! Oct 24, 2009 @ 12:50:38#19
iwannano

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49/F/Mountainair area, New Mexico
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Quote:
Coleosis said:

The statistics are to educate the people. Posting them online would make it easier to obtain the statistics

To educate what people ? the 10 th grader before she becomes a 11th grade pregnant dropout ? Or the general public that just wants to know ? What will the average citizen do with the education /knowledge from having access to the statistics ?



Won't work/Ta-Ta!!
Well, if crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight? They never mention that part to us, do they?
George Carlin
On November 22, 2009
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