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iwannano
Mountain William
Über-Monkey+
50978 points
49/F/Mountainair, New Mexico
Join Date: Mar 2008 | The years it took American women to have the right to have a voice and to vote her own mind. And be her own person, not her husbands property .And now that a woman that can hold her head up and be counted as an important part of the communitee and be able to earn a wage she can be proud of because she has worked to earn it. Men and women are of euqal importance for the continuation and survival of our society or culture , Never in our history and never will we ever be . a herd of cattle with nothing more in mind than to procreate to keep the gene pool healthy |  | |
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squirt_aka_casey
Look, I'm cool
Monk+
39176 points
30/F/Brunswick, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2006 | soupnazi said:
We are taught that women are expendable?????
Sorry but this is simply NOT true , I have no idea what society or culture you hail from but that is ridiculous . If you think I am wrong perhaps you can give examples.
In fact nearly every society I know of teaches exactly the opposite , that Men are expendable and always have been.
This general idea is a reflection of the vast differences between men and women at every level. In other words in the nature vs nurture argument nurturing has been defeated .
We are different at the DNA level and those differences are psychological, physical, mental and emotional.
In the end we value women more their lives are less expendable and to be protected at the cost of losing mens lives.
Even nature in general reflects this idea it is a primal instinct which we share with animals. Ever hear of a lone wolf? the are outcasts from the pack and are always MALE.Lions do the same thing when their pride gets to large , they always shrink their population by kicking out a male or two.
This is simply because whether we realize it or not we understand deep down inside that in terms of propagating the species women are or evaluable than men . Sperm is easily replaced ovaries are not so.
Simple math proves this . The average man can make one or more women pregnant everyday of his life till he dies as long as he has partners. But childbirth is difficult and traumatic and each woman has her limits in how many babies she can have. Some women die in childbirth the first time others can have over a dozen kids but they still have very finite limits.
As for being a liability well in some cases this is simply true women would not last long for example in an NFL football game. this does not suggest women are inferior merely different, and football is not a game for women.
What is referred to as sexism may sometimes be bias based on sex but more often is merely an honest and true reflection of the fact that men and women are very different and in fact those differences are often inconvenient since they show up as strengths and weaknesses.
The reason that a lion pride will get rid of males is because they have one all important male, who mates with all the lionesses. Other male lions are a threat, and are sent out to make their own prides.
And hello, woman have their own football league. Yes, your right, I highly doubt that they can hold their own against NFL players, but football can be a game women can play.
Just wanted to point out those few things.
iwannano said:
Imean come on, from an extremely young age everybody is taugth that women are expendable, inferior and just a general liability
Are you serious,
who is the teachers and who are the students learning this?
While women are not on the same level in some things , important things like equal pay for equal work , a woman can demand and get equal wages and benefits package ,but ,it 's the fact that she has to 'demand' it where a man going for the same 'job' would be offered in the wages and packages as an incentive. And there will always be the 'manly man mechanic that will try take a woman to the cleaners for 'blinker fluids ' ect...these kinds of issuses are things women will just learn how to get around or just blow off as not important enough to allow them ti disrupt her day,
way of thinking but this "women are expendable, inferior and just a general liability" is from the 18th century and went out with the bustle and when women fought and got the right to vote . Back then a woman was her husbands or fathers property and was consided somewhere less than a good horse in her worth. If there is a man now days trying to teach and treat a woman in this way it's because he's an abuser and the woman needs to get the hell away from him. this is the standard common thinking in some counties still but even that is changing,
If you or someone you know really is dealing with this kind od thinking and behavour from a man get the hell out and get somewhere safe and get some help to learn what it really means to be a woman of this day and time . Please for youe self or who ever .I can't help but think it is you be cause of the way you worded your post.
It's called dumb women jokes. I'm not personally offended by them, but the fact of the matter is, they are still there, and in general, I've seen that women are treated as such still. It is no where near as bad as it used to be, but it's still out there. | | | |
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Wheezy_Knight
Über Master Debater
8192 points
53/M/Ankh-Morpork, United Kingdom
Join Date: Aug 2008 | Quote:
Sexism and Racism in American Society...
I still say that religious intolerance was needed in that title for the full set. | | | |
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boobagins
SPICY HOT TAMALES
Ogler+
26800 points
21/F/Astral Weeks, Florida
Join Date: Aug 2008 | Ally_Baby said:
Okay, I guess this could fall under both sexism and racism, but this was the first one I saw...so here it shall be.
Anyway
I was having a discussion in my history class recently, and we were asked to respond to the question
Which is worse in American society, sexism or racism?
Now, I am of the opinion that they both run pretty rampant through our country (even if Obama is president). I just think that in today's society, it is less desirable to be seen as reacist than it is to be seen as sexist. Imean come on, from an extremely young age everybody is taugth that women are expendable, inferior and just a general liability. We may know intellectually that this is not the case, but as a culture that is still an undercurrent in our thoughts and actions. Just as racism is, tthe younger generations are trying to overcome this, this is true...but really I don't think that either problem is going to be solved until the entire population tha twas living at that time dies off, and the more open-minded, generally younger generations are left.
*It probably sounded crass and just plain mean, but it's the sad truth.*
Just curious as to what everybody else thinks. 
I would say racism...
Sexism is getting to be pretty equal now and its much easier IMO to get over than racism is.
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soupnazi
Über-Meister
1600 points
43/NA/Cincinnati,
Join Date: Oct 2008 | squirt_aka_casey said:
The reason that a lion pride will get rid of males is because they have one all important male, who mates with all the lionesses. Other male lions are a threat, and are sent out to make their own prides.
And hello, woman have their own football league. Yes, your right, I highly doubt that they can hold their own against NFL players, but football can be a game women can play.
Just wanted to point out those few things.
The lions and wolves and whatever discard other males because males are less valuable not because of the male dominant. The alpha male or male dominant will change in time.
Yes I now women have their own football league and basketball league etc. however that is not relevant to this thread the differences between men and women do dictate that sometimes one is a liability to the other . The military learned this a long time ago but is stuck in a position they cannot exclude women but the mixing weakens the military dangerously.
It's called dumb women jokes. I'm not personally offended by them, but the fact of the matter is, they are still there, and in general, I've seen that women are treated as such still. It is no where near as bad as it used to be, but it's still out there.
Honestly I have heard as many jokes about men as about women I can see no difference here humor is very often exaggerated and targets SOMEONE. | | | |
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dumdedum
Debater
6659 points
18/F/-, United Kingdom
Join Date: Jun 2007 | kentoo said:
Where does "women and children first" come from?.... they are any societies most valuable asset ... just as a herd of cattle only needs two or three bulls to keep the gene pool healthy.
Yeah actually.
I think there are two ways in which sexism is different. I can accept as a women the old teachings that womens place is in the home. ect ect. AND I don't think not giving them the vote at first was really sexist - not intentionally anyway. I think it was because that as women spent their days at home with the children that they didn't actually see the outside world as much as men, they didn't work so they didn't have to be concerned with the economy and their government. However NOT giving it them when things started to change was sexist.
I am a girl. I KNOW that naturally part of being a women is raising children, looking after people and all those tradition jobs - this is because women we made this way by nature. HOWEVER I think the biggest problem in terms of sexism is the exploitation of women. I mean this by the derrogatory ways that men have come to find acceptable as society allows more and more things.
Lets take porn. We all know what I mean by this. The way it's done and what it often involves. Yes it is in the natural male body to fantasize about sex and objectify. This I can deal with, but just as it went too far with the traditional female drives going from babies to start involving things such as all the housework and being submissive to their husbands (which we seem to be finally getting rid of slowly at least) the natural male drives have also gone too far into ways which yet again women are made to suffer for.
I hope this makes sense :/ | | | |
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squirt_aka_casey
Look, I'm cool
Monk+
39176 points
30/F/Brunswick, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2006 | dumdedum:
Yes, I can see what you are saying there. There are somethings, that in general are taken as sexism, that are kind of in our nature. Man protects women and children, woman does what needs to be done to keep the children healthy.
There is a certain amount of personality to it also. I have a female friend who chooses to stay at home and raise the kids, and her husband's income allows for it. I don't think that he is sexist because I know that is what she wants.
Also, where I see a lot of sexism is between males... My brother holds a job *barely* and takes care of himself finacially *less than barely* and he rides the hell outta my bf who takes care of the kids, does all the repairs around the house, does all the housework, and some of the cooking. The bf... is like my little housewife. As a family, I pay rent, and keep our bills current. We don't need him to work, so he stays home, and does what needs to be done there.
It's not like my brother, with his job is paying any rent. Hell, he doesn't even buy food. My mom and I feed his kids every other weekend, and my bf cooks the food that my mom and I buy for his kids, and he can't even lift a finger to anything other than serve his own meals *cuz we don't give him enough food*.
Anyway, tangent rant  The point is, the bf get gruff from the brother bc "he should be working blah blah blah".... it's stupid s***, if the bf was working and I was staying home, my brother wouldn't think a damn thing about it. | | | |
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llynn00
Commander
51 points
41/F/Zephyrhills, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2008 | squirt_aka_casey said:
...........
The other trend I've seen is the nice racism. I see people so afraid of upsetting someone who is of another color, that they go out of their way to be nice to them, and overly nice at that. I just don't understand why they aren't just human. I'm mean to everybody.... I don't give a crap what color your skin is
I love this. I too feel the same. It has been an upwardly climbing trend. Everyone is walking on eggshells. The comedians are the only ones who seem to speak the truth. | | | |
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rubylights
Über-Minister+
19073 points
19/F/Mount Pocono, Pennsylvania
Join Date: Nov 2007 | Ally_Baby said:
Okay, I guess this could fall under both sexism and racism, but this was the first one I saw...so here it shall be.
Anyway
I was having a discussion in my history class recently, and we were asked to respond to the question
Which is worse in American society, sexism or racism?
Now, I am of the opinion that they both run pretty rampant through our country (even if Obama is president). I just think that in today's society, it is less desirable to be seen as reacist than it is to be seen as sexist. Imean come on, from an extremely young age everybody is taugth that women are expendable, inferior and just a general liability. We may know intellectually that this is not the case, but as a culture that is still an undercurrent in our thoughts and actions. Just as racism is, tthe younger generations are trying to overcome this, this is true...but really I don't think that either problem is going to be solved until the entire population tha twas living at that time dies off, and the more open-minded, generally younger generations are left.
*It probably sounded crass and just plain mean, but it's the sad truth.*
Just curious as to what everybody else thinks.
maybe youre taught that, but i'm not. women aren't liabilities and neither are men. its' true, men and women are different but we're equal. | | | |
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squirt_aka_casey
Look, I'm cool
Monk+
39176 points
30/F/Brunswick, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2006 | soupnazi said:
Men and women are equal in the sense that both are and should be equal under the law and both have equal rights. However yes men and women are different as well and these differences will often show up as strengths and weaknesses depending on the circumstances.
The whole issue of equality beyond this however is a false one. No two people are equal except under the law nor should they be treated as equal. It does not matter if two people are the same gender or man/woman they are not going to be equal at anything or in very many ways.
This is why the whole notion of equal pay for equal work is a terrible lie. There is no such thing as equal work therefore the idea of getting equal pay is false.
There may be a dozen reasons why n employer values one worker or employee over another. Personal appearance for example , even thought two people produce as much output one presents a better example than the other and the public may notice . In other words one represents the employer better. Attendance, sick days , tardiness efficiency a desire to do more and learn more. All these traits and many others may make one person more valuable than another to an employer. Therefore an employer may well choose to compensate one worker better than the other and it is their right to make this decision. Furthermore it is impossible to objectively measure one persons value to an employer over another persons . In light of this claims of equal pay for equal work can never be achieved nor should we try to achieve it.
I am not sure where most people on this site work for a living but surely many people here have worked in a company or corporation where they have strict rules perhaps even a written agreement that workers may NOT talk about their salaries or wages with another worker and yes this rule may be strictly enforced. I have seen people fired for breaking it in the most casual manner. The reason for such a rule is rooted in the reasons I stated above. One person may be paid ore than another and when people discover this they get angry jealous they confront the boss demanding to know why etc. In order to avoid this and keep the focus on work most employers forbid such conversation and make it stick. This merely illustrates that equal work does not exist nor does equal pay and we should not try to create it.
you sound just like my boss, but you are very correct. If it weren't for the fact that inflation has made minimum wage necessary, I would fully support the idea that a person only gets paid what they are worth. | | | |
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squirt_aka_casey
Look, I'm cool
Monk+
39176 points
30/F/Brunswick, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2006 | dumdedum said:
Hmm I do see what you mean about equal work. However I don't think the rewards for being more valuable should be in pay. I think it works well right now. Everyone on the same job title get the same wage and those who are considered more value eventually get their rewards with higher positions ect ect. I think this is fair. If people are required to do the same job they should get paid the same.
For example I think it's absolutely shocking that I do the same job as the other people on my floor and actually I do it better than some of them yet because I am under 18 and minimum wage is more than £2 an hour lower for under 18s I get paid at least £2 less. It's ridiculous. It's the same amount of work so why is it lower pay?
The only way that you can reward an employee in America anymore is with pay. If you do anything else, you'll get sued for sexual harassment. Seriously. Any display of niceness at all, even in innocence is considered sexual, somehow, and you then loose your business.
I agree though, it's not fair, just cuz of age you get paid less? That's stupid. | | | |
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Nov 29, 2008 @ 07:36:47
