Forums: Religion & Philosophy: PhilosophyNOT MAGIC AT ALL |  |
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Erimitus The mind of God, Antarctica | #1  Apr 10, 2012 @ 23:47:01Yesterday is gone, tomorrow out of sight. Once we eat the apple paradises is lost and we cannot go back. The past cannot un-happen. However if we have free will, then the future is open. Then we have at least some measure of control. Is the future determined by the present? Is the future, like the past, fixed, is it inevitable? Or , are there many possible futures? And are at least some of the ways that the future may unfold contingent upon the choices that are made? The mind may not be physical and if the mind is not physical then it is outside of the causal chain. The mind is, of course, influenced by and influences causality; (dare I hope, is it possible, could it be) that the mind, my mind, any mind, is free, (if only to a limited extent and constrained by contingencies), able to choose between alternatives? Is the future, at least to some extent, influenced by the choices that are made? Life is only a series of reprieves and eventually we all lose it. Death is an inevitability; we cannot change that no matter what choices we make. Can we prolong our lives with correct choices or are we just along for the ride? | ||||||
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Electric_Banana Pastel Avon Suburbia, New Zeal | #2 Apr 10, 2012 @ 23:58:27Extended life.... link [www.theforumsite.com] I'm really not sure how clairvoyance works though, unless, for the most part, we're all on a rail and in a ride that can be repeated and some people have rode the ride previously. I just swapped games with someone who had my game selections waiting for me before I even mentioned them. | ||||||
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| Willi this could be heaven  north in, Illinois | #3 Apr 11, 2012 @ 00:37:13 @Erimitus Said  Yesterday is gone, tomorrow out of sight. Once we eat the apple paradises is lost and we cannot go back. The past cannot un-happen. However if we have free will, then the future is open. Then we have at least some measure of control. Is the future determined by the present? Is the future, like the past, fixed, is it inevitable? Or , are there many possible futures? And are at least some of the ways that the future may unfold contingent upon the choices that are made? The mind may not be physical and if the mind is not physical then it is outside of the causal chain. The mind is, of course, influenced by and influences causality; (dare I hope, is it possible, could it be) that the mind, my mind, any mind, is free, (if only to a limited extent and constrained by contingencies), able to choose between alternatives? Is the future, at least to some extent, influenced by the choices that are made? Life is only a series of reprieves and eventually we all lose it. Death is an inevitability; we cannot change that no matter what choices we make. Can we prolong our lives with correct choices or are we just along for the ride? every choice has intent. | ||||||
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| Electric_Banana Pastel Avon Suburbia, New Zeal | #4 Apr 11, 2012 @ 00:47:41I strategically position myself into situations that excuse me from having to make too many.  | ||||||
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| Willi this could be heaven north in, Illinois | #5 Apr 11, 2012 @ 00:57:26 @Electric_Banana Said I strategically position myself into situations that excuse me from having to make too many. then the intent is not to make many. so then each time, the same intent creates the choice? | ||||||
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| Eaglebauer FOSSOR SAPIENS  Saint Louis, Missouri | #6 Apr 11, 2012 @ 00:59:21Advocatis Diaboli...but... What if said intentions are merely products of a grander machination of "the world" in which all is determined? What if a choice I make now is determined by all the of chemical reactions and whatnot that came before me...I chose the egg salad sandwich not out of some free will preference for egg salad but because my physical brain had the chemistry to choose it based upon everything that came before this moment and it wasn't in fact possible for me to choose anything but egg salad? My perception may be that the choice was made of my own volition, but what is volition really? Is it truly due to some invisible and noncorporeal "mind", or are we as people just collections of chemicals with delusions of grandeur? I think these are the questions at stake in the OP. A larger question that arises then is, if we are strictly nothing other than gears and cogs in a remarkably complex machine, if strict determinism is in fact reality, does this obliterate the possibility of morality? Can there be morality without choice? | |||||||
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| Willi this could be heaven north in, Illinois | #7 Apr 11, 2012 @ 01:40:58 @Eaglebauer Said what is volition really? Is it truly due to some invisible and noncorporeal "mind", or are we as people just collections of chemicals with delusions of grandeur? I think these are the questions at stake in the OP. A larger question that arises then is, if we are strictly nothing other than gears and cogs in a remarkably complex machine, if strict determinism is in fact reality, does this obliterate the possibility of morality? Can there be morality without choice? determinism is an interesting concept. i may be determined to do many things, yet not acheive any. today is a by-product of yesterday i think. tomorrow, open by choices based on the past, plus some new ideas if available. a cog, yes. happy or sad cog? honest or deceptive cog? willing to try, or to afraid cog? | ||||||
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futilevoice , Illinois | #8 Apr 11, 2012 @ 02:33:48 @Erimitus Said Yesterday is gone, tomorrow out of sight. Once we eat the apple paradises is lost and we cannot go back. The past cannot un-happen. However if we have free will, then the future is open. Then we have at least some measure of control. Is the future determined by the present? Is the future, like the past, fixed, is it inevitable? Or , are there many possible futures? And are at least some of the ways that the future may unfold contingent upon the choices that are made? The mind may not be physical and if the mind is not physical then it is outside of the causal chain. The mind is, of course, influenced by and influences causality; (dare I hope, is it possible, could it be) that the mind, my mind, any mind, is free, (if only to a limited extent and constrained by contingencies), able to choose between alternatives? Is the future, at least to some extent, influenced by the choices that are made? Life is only a series of reprieves and eventually we all lose it. Death is an inevitability; we cannot change that no matter what choices we make. Can we prolong our lives with correct choices or are we just along for the ride? Yes, the future is the result of the choices that we have made, however, there are many possible futures. There are many possible outside influences that can affect our future, some which are beyond our control. You can do all the right things to prolong your life but sometimes the unexpected happens to end it. Free will is not an illusion although most are controlled by prior experiences. You can change things if you are consciously aware. | ||||||
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| MadCornishBiker Banned  St Columb Road, United Kingdom | #9 Apr 11, 2012 @ 09:03:38 @Erimitus Said Yesterday is gone, tomorrow out of sight. Once we eat the apple paradises is lost and we cannot go back. The past cannot un-happen. However if we have free will, then the future is open. Then we have at least some measure of control. Is the future determined by the present? Is the future, like the past, fixed, is it inevitable? Or , are there many possible futures? And are at least some of the ways that the future may unfold contingent upon the choices that are made? The mind may not be physical and if the mind is not physical then it is outside of the causal chain. The mind is, of course, influenced by and influences causality; (dare I hope, is it possible, could it be) that the mind, my mind, any mind, is free, (if only to a limited extent and constrained by contingencies), able to choose between alternatives? Is the future, at least to some extent, influenced by the choices that are made? Life is only a series of reprieves and eventually we all lose it. Death is an inevitability; we cannot change that no matter what choices we make. Can we prolong our lives with correct choices or are we just along for the ride? The past cannot be changed, however the future can, and past mistakes can be corrected or recovered from. | ||||||
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| Erimitus The mind of God, Antarctica | #10 Apr 11, 2012 @ 10:04:39 | ||||||
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| Erimitus The mind of God, Antarctica | #11 Apr 11, 2012 @ 10:07:28 @Electric_Banana Said I strategically position myself into situations that excuse me from having to make too many. We cannot not choose. Not choosing is the choice of not choosing. How do we (you) know what the correct choice is and how do we (you) decide which choice to make? Please. | ||||||
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nooneinparticular , Hawaii | #12 Apr 11, 2012 @ 10:59:13 @Eaglebauer Said Advocatis Diaboli...but... What if said intentions are merely products of a grander machination of "the world" in which all is determined? What if a choice I make now is determined by all the of chemical reactions and whatnot that came before me...I chose the egg salad sandwich not out of some free will preference for egg salad but because my physical brain had the chemistry to choose it based upon everything that came before this moment and it wasn't in fact possible for me to choose anything but egg salad? My perception may be that the choice was made of my own volition, but what is volition really? Is it truly due to some invisible and noncorporeal "mind", or are we as people just collections of chemicals with delusions of grandeur? But doesn't that assume that A) Whatever directs thoughts, be them chemicals or whatever else we wish to conceive, can never 'get its wires crossed'? The feeling of not being able to make up one's mind, even for a second, would seem to counteract the existence of this scenario, would it not? and B) That the chemicals themselves are predetermined? Chemical reactions can, and most likely are all predetermined based on some property or other, but that does not necessarily assume an existence of said chemical at a given moment. Quote: I think these are the questions at stake in the OP. A larger question that arises then is, if we are strictly nothing other than gears and cogs in a remarkably complex machine, if strict determinism is in fact reality, does this obliterate the possibility of morality? Can there be morality without choice? By conventional definitions, there can be no morality without choice since morality itself is the expression of a choice, whatever that choice may be. To me morality is a dated and rather personal term that has very little real value, but thats another subject entirely. | ||||||
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| nooneinparticular , Hawaii | #13 Apr 11, 2012 @ 11:16:44 @Erimitus Said Yesterday is gone, tomorrow out of sight. Once we eat the apple paradises is lost and we cannot go back. The past cannot un-happen. However if we have free will, then the future is open. Then we have at least some measure of control. Is the future determined by the present? Is the future, like the past, fixed, is it inevitable? Or , are there many possible futures? And are at least some of the ways that the future may unfold contingent upon the choices that are made? A simple scenario is that a decision is made based on a coin flip. The decision to base a decision on a coin flip may or may not be predetermined, but the outcome of the coin flip cannot be consciously affected by the flipper. Unless, of course, you are talking about more than 'human choice' and rather all phenomenon within the universe, which is a little harder to pin down... Quote: The mind may not be physical and if the mind is not physical then it is outside of the causal chain. The mind is, of course, influenced by and influences causality; (dare I hope, is it possible, could it be) that the mind, my mind, any mind, is free, (if only to a limited extent and constrained by contingencies), able to choose between alternatives? Is the future, at least to some extent, influenced by the choices that are made? Assuming that choices exist, then by what you've written here it would imply that the future can at least to some extent be influenced by the choices people make. Quote: Life is only a series of reprieves and eventually we all lose it. Death is an inevitability; we cannot change that no matter what choices we make. Can we prolong our lives with correct choices or are we just along for the ride? I've read this several times and I always come to the same conclusion. The question isn't whether correct choices can prolong our life; it seems to be wether choices, first and foremost, exist, and secondly whether correct choices exist. | ||||||
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| BozieFozie Life's a Beach  Paradise, Florida | #14 Apr 11, 2012 @ 11:26:23 @Erimitus Said Yesterday is gone, tomorrow out of sight. Once we eat the apple paradises is lost and we cannot go back. The past cannot un-happen. However if we have free will, then the future is open. Then we have at least some measure of control. Is the future determined by the present? Is the future, like the past, fixed, is it inevitable? Or , are there many possible futures? And are at least some of the ways that the future may unfold contingent upon the choices that are made? The mind may not be physical and if the mind is not physical then it is outside of the causal chain. The mind is, of course, influenced by and influences causality; (dare I hope, is it possible, could it be) that the mind, my mind, any mind, is free, (if only to a limited extent and constrained by contingencies), able to choose between alternatives? Is the future, at least to some extent, influenced by the choices that are made? Life is only a series of reprieves and eventually we all lose it. Death is an inevitability; we cannot change that no matter what choices we make. Can we prolong our lives with correct choices or are we just along for the ride? Well, I believe several things. First, love is all that matters, how we love, who we love, THAT we love and possibly leave the Earth a bit better for us having walked upon it! I also believe the future IS influenced by the choices I make TODAY. For example, I look around my life and it is beyond beautiful! A wonderful husband, beautiful and healthy daughter, lovely home and surrounding land, fulfilling relationships with family and friends and a creative and good career(s). I wonder, HOW did all this happen when I came from a dark, lonely place (in my addictions). The answer is simply ONE DAY AT A TIME, making healthier choices, asking for help from the wisdom of others that have walked this path before me, and CHOOSING to think positive, just for today! There! That's MY 2 cents!  | ||||||
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| Kristy69 Carly's Mommy  Underneath the Cyanide Sun.... | #15 Apr 11, 2012 @ 11:28:53 @Erimitus Said Yesterday is gone, tomorrow out of sight. Once we eat the apple paradises is lost and we cannot go back. The past cannot un-happen. However if we have free will, then the future is open. Then we have at least some measure of control. Is the future determined by the present? Is the future, like the past, fixed, is it inevitable? Or , are there many possible futures? And are at least some of the ways that the future may unfold contingent upon the choices that are made? The mind may not be physical and if the mind is not physical then it is outside of the causal chain. The mind is, of course, influenced by and influences causality; (dare I hope, is it possible, could it be) that the mind, my mind, any mind, is free, (if only to a limited extent and constrained by contingencies), able to choose between alternatives? Is the future, at least to some extent, influenced by the choices that are made? Life is only a series of reprieves and eventually we all lose it. Death is an inevitability; we cannot change that no matter what choices we make. Can we prolong our lives with correct choices or are we just along for the ride? What if there is one inevitable future, just many different paths that end at the same place?? Like no matter what decisions you make, you'll still end up with the same fate? | ||||||
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