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Jehovah's Witnesses - What do they really believe?

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Jennifer1984 On October 22, 2014
Olympic Junkie





Penzance, United Kingdom
#16New Post! Mar 07, 2012 @ 11:38:31
@MadCornishBiker Said

No, anything that the bible tells them, simple as that. JWs don;t discriminate, though God does, according to obedience to His purposes and of course whether people choose to go against what is natural (what we were designed for) natural or not.

People like to criticise God because of their own weakness. It's not his fault they are so weak willed.



I'm not criticising God, I'm criticising JW's.

Using God as an excuse for discriminating against other people is as old as religion itself. The excuse works like this: I interpret the Bible as saying that God discriminates, so when I'm discriminating, I'm fulfilling his purpose on earth, therefore it's ok for me to discriminate and I can call it religious conviction.


I don't criticise God because I believe there is no evidence that makes it reasonable for me to believe he exists. I cannot criticise an entity that I do not believe exists at this time.

What you see as weakeness, I see as strength. I am strong enough to resist the constant, unremitting attempts of religionists to bludgeon me into believing as they believe. I am strong enough to resist the bullying and the threats of eternal damnation. I am strong enough to resist those who use religion as a weapon.

I would love nothing more than to live my life in peace without intimidation, condemnation, harassment and bullying from religionists who I have never done any harm to and would be happy to leave to their lives in peace, if only they would afford me the same common courtesy.

There is no bully like a religious bully.


.
Teleologist On April 13, 2012




Phoenix,
#17New Post! Mar 07, 2012 @ 20:31:35
@MadCornishBiker Said

The very fact the blood has been broken down into components removes the other health problems with blood.


You don't know what you are talking about. Most diseases that are transmitted via transfusions of whole blood are also transmitted via Watchtower "aproved" blood components. In fact, many Watchtower "approved" blood components are way more dangerous in transmitting diseases than are transfusions of whole blood because many blood components are derived from pooled blood. Pooled blood comes from hundreds of donors thus increasing the risk of transmitting disease. Please explain why you think it is merciful for the Watchtower Society to allow JW's to take blood components that are more risky than taking transfusions of whole blood?

Also, taking donated blood and extracting what you want from it is certainly not abstaining from it. If the Watchtower society is going to allow JW's to use from the donated blood supply and thus ignore the Biblical command to "abstain from...blood" in order to be merciful as you claim then why don't they go all the way in being merciful by allowing JW's to take any blood component they want? There is absolutely no Biblical basis for the Watchtower Society to claim that taking some blood components are okay while taking other blood components are a disfellowshipping offense. There is nothing merciful about this policy and on top of that it is illogical.
treebee On September 13, 2014
Government Hooker

Moderator




London, United Kingdom
#18New Post! Mar 07, 2012 @ 20:38:08
@MadCornishBiker Said

I am sorry, but as is often the case your reply is typical of one who has taken the party line without actually thinking about it. Thin it through a bit more deeply, especially taking the following into account.

Use of blood in a transfusion causes Haemolytic reaction. That is a given and completely unavoidable as long as blood contains DNA. Since the alternatives don't carry DNA, and therefore cannot cause Haemolytic reaction, that one factor alone makes blood the inferior transfusion medium.

When you add in the chance of infection, including Cancer as my father's case demonstrates, from transfused blood, however small that chance may be, again blood comes out as the inferior medium.

Add in the increased risk of haemorrhage because of the added anti-coagulants in blood, and that increases the inferiority of blood as a transfusion medium.

Whilst it has to be admitted that the alternatives do nothing to prevent haemorrhage, they do not promote it through containing anti-coagulants.

The only saving grace for blood is a transfusion medium is that it increases circulatory volume, which all the others do anyway, since transfused blood does not carry oxygen for at least 24, often 48 hours..

It is not a bogus claim. In 1984 one of the top Surgeons in the UK said n an article in the Guardian, "If we had to get a licence for blood as a medicine now we would fail as it would be deemed too dangerous". A very true statement.

Because it is not the permitted components that cause the dangers and problem. Haemolytic reaction is only triggered by foreign DNA which is not contained in the permitted components. The very fact the blood has been broken down into components removes the other health problems with blood.

I am not the one trying to have it both ways, nor are the JWs.

I find it interesting that in the UK Ambulances will soon be carrying blood for transfusion. Maybe because of the number of surgeons now performing operations without blood they are desperate for ways to use it. Thin about it. With muhc reduced ability to type blood on the scene of an accident the increase it the chance of sever haemolytic reaction, even fatally so, is much increased.

And they claim to put patients first. That'll be the day, it is and has always been money first reputation second and patients third as far as the health authorities are concerned. That is why in the UK medical treatment, even for fatal diseases and problems,is now called a Postcode Lottery, because the availability of drugs and treatment depends in the main on where you live!


You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#19New Post! Mar 07, 2012 @ 20:39:04
@Teleologist Said

You don't know what you are talking about. Most diseases that are transmitted via transfusions of whole blood are also transmitted via Watchtower "aproved" blood components. In fact, many Watchtower "approved" blood components are way more dangerous in transmitting diseases than are transfusions of whole blood because many blood components are derived from pooled blood. Pooled blood comes from hundreds of donors thus increasing the risk of transmitting disease. Please explain why you think it is merciful for the Watchtower Society to allow JW's to take blood components that are more risky than taking transfusions of whole blood?

Also, taking donated blood and extracting what you want from it is certainly not abstaining from it. If the Watchtower society is going to allow JW's to use from the donated blood supply and thus ignore the Biblical command to "abstain from...blood" in order to be merciful as you claim then why don't they go all the way in being merciful by allowing JW's to take any blood component they want? There is absolutely no Biblical basis for the Watchtower Society to claim that taking some blood components are okay while taking other blood components are a disfellowshipping offense. There is nothing merciful about this policy and on top of that it is illogical.


Well you are welcome to your opinion, but I don't share it, and neither does the medical profession.

Maybe I don;t know what I am talking about, but the poele I got my information off do, after it is their textbooks and journals I got it all from.

As I have said before, try googling "bloodless surgery" if you want your eyes opened.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#20New Post! Mar 07, 2012 @ 20:40:01
@treebee Said

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.


As I said elsewhere, maybe I don;t but since it comes from the medical professions own textbooks and journals then maybe I do.
treebee On September 13, 2014
Government Hooker

Moderator




London, United Kingdom
#21New Post! Mar 07, 2012 @ 20:46:10
@MadCornishBiker Said

As I said elsewhere, maybe I don;t but since it comes from the medical professions own textbooks and journals then maybe I do.



Jehovas Witnesses who happen to be in medicine yes.

So among say 500 years of medical research one or two papers are written and it changes everything?

Like homeopathy is beneficial, or MMR vaccination causes autism?

Anyone with a medical degree can write a paper. But as you said, you do not have much time for people with a degree.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#22New Post! Mar 07, 2012 @ 20:52:21
@treebee Said

Jehovas Witnesses who happen to be in medicine yes.

So among say 500 years of medical research one or two papers are written and it changes everything?

Like homeopathy is beneficial, or MMR vaccination causes autism?

Anyone with a medical degree can write a paper. But as you said, you do not have much time for people with a degree.


No, it doesn't come from JWs, that is just your excuse not to listen.

Try checking what I say out, the information is all out there for anyone who has the guts to check. Only a fool dismisses things without testing them out.

I am sure ones like Dr Denton Cooley would appreciate what you say, lol. link [www.achievement.org] He has been doing bloodless heart surgery for decades. (He uses Ringers Lactate sometimes called Ringers Solution instead of blood).
treebee On September 13, 2014
Government Hooker

Moderator




London, United Kingdom
#23New Post! Mar 07, 2012 @ 20:58:42
@MadCornishBiker Said

No, it doesn't come from JWs, that is just your excuse not to listen.

Try checking what I say out, the information is all out there for anyone who has the guts to check. Only a fool dismisses things without testing them out.

I am sure ones like Dr Denton Cooley would appreciate what you say, lol. link [www.achievement.org] He has been doing bloodless heart surgery for decades. (He uses Ringers Lactate sometimes called Ringers Solution instead of blood).



I already read this on another thread you posted about bloodless surgery and I question it, no I disregard it entirely. Blood transfusion is responsible for saving the lives of millions of people and continues to do so today. There is no valid reason whatsoever for not having it. Same as there is no valid reason whatsoever for circumcision in most male infants. Its entirely mumbo jumbo. Harmful mumbo jumbo at that.
noseycow On August 26, 2014
x dippy madam x





\"proud blackcountry wench\",
#24New Post! Mar 07, 2012 @ 21:06:27
All i know about them is, they attack on sundays, in suits, x
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#25New Post! Mar 07, 2012 @ 21:09:30
@treebee Said

I already read this on another thread you posted about bloodless surgery and I question it, no I disregard it entirely. Blood transfusion is responsible for saving the lives of millions of people and continues to do so today. There is no valid reason whatsoever for not having it. Same as there is no valid reason whatsoever for circumcision in most male infants. Its entirely mumbo jumbo. Harmful mumbo jumbo at that.


That is why I get a little angry about it sometimes, the medical profession have suckered people like you in so thoroughly that you can't even accept valid evidence against what you want to believe. To an extent they are also victims of their own success at it as they can't backtrack so easily without losing face.

And people say I'm blind, lol.

So you have checked it out, but discounted it purely because you don't wish to believe it? What does that say about you I wonder?

Transfusions save lives, but having blood in them reduces the chances of doing so.

Check out Haemolytic Reaction for a start.

Can you honestly tell me one single advantage that using blood in a transfusion has over using the alternatives? I doubt it, not honestly anyway.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#26New Post! Mar 07, 2012 @ 21:10:28
@noseycow Said

All i know about them is, they attack on sundays, in suits, x


Lol, not just Sundays, lol, they are out and about every day.
LuckyCharms On October 17, 2014
Magically Delicious





,
#27New Post! Mar 07, 2012 @ 21:22:51
@noseycow Said

All i know about them is, they attack on sundays, in suits, x



We've got a church of them about a mile outside of the neighborhood. They are not terribly welcome by anyone in the neighborhood. They don't respect others, they neglect their children in their attempts to share 'the rapture' (dehydrated, tired, sunburned), and generally make a nuisance of themselves. They don't take no for an answer and they anger most of the neighborhood. A bunch of self righteous masochists.
sister_of_mercy On August 28, 2014




London, United Kingdom
#28New Post! Mar 07, 2012 @ 21:27:11
In my experience though they're not necessarily all deluded/manipulative folk. Two of my best friends were JWs and their families were perfectly lovely and normal. The only thing that I found odd was that they prayed before meals but I suppose that's a fairly commonplace thing to do if you're a Christian.

They didn't force their views on anyone, but they did seem to oppress their kid a bit. She was made to go to the meetings but she didn't want to- that caused a lot of tension between the parents as one of them was an atheist and agreed with her. Then again I had a CofE best friend who was forced to go to church and cathedral choir against his will, so it's not exclusively a JW thing.
LuckyCharms On October 17, 2014
Magically Delicious





,
#29New Post! Mar 07, 2012 @ 21:34:35
@sister_of_mercy Said

In my experience though they're not necessarily all deluded/manipulative folk. Two of my best friends were JWs and their families were perfectly lovely and normal. The only thing that I found odd was that they prayed before meals but I suppose that's a fairly commonplace thing to do if you're a Christian.

They didn't force their views on anyone, but they did seem to oppress their kid a bit. She was made to go to the meetings but she didn't want to- that caused a lot of tension between the parents as one of them was an atheist and agreed with her. Then again I had a CofE best friend who was forced to go to church and cathedral choir against his will, so it's not exclusively a JW thing.



I worked with a JW. Well she was a 'shunned' JW. She was okay, but because of her upraising she rebelled to the extreme. Got involved with the wrong guy, had a kid by him but then finally came to her senses and gave him the heave ho.

I did meet her family. Which I did find them perfectly nice people at face level.

However, the more I found out about them the less I liked them.

In order for my co-worker to be accepted back into the fold and to be acknowledged by her family, she had to go to meetings at least 3 times a week. She was not acknowledged or greeted. She came, spoke to no one, listened and then left without saying good bye or having anyone note that she was ever there.

After three months of this self abuse, she was finally blessed with someone saying 'hello'. After that, she had to continually prove herself in order to be accepted.

The part that pissed me off was that the parents blamed her for them not being able to interact with their grandson. They were so coerced by their faith that they gave up their daughter and their grandson because their daughter had given up the religion. She was basically blackmailed into going back. Otherwise she would have lost her family.

It was... ugly.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#30New Post! Mar 07, 2012 @ 21:36:16
@LuckyCharms Said

We've got a church of them about a mile outside of the neighborhood. They are not terribly welcome by anyone in the neighborhood. They don't respect others, they neglect their children in their attempts to share 'the rapture' (dehydrated, tired, sunburned), and generally make a nuisance of themselves. They don't take no for an answer and they anger most of the neighborhood. A bunch of self righteous masochists.



That is only your opinion, and the Jehovah's Witnesses don't subscribe to the rapture it is not a scriptural teaching.

One thing I do know is that they are encouraged to make sure that their children don't get dehydrated or sunburned and you cannot say otherwise unless you follow them from door to door for a long time.

As for tired, possibly, but then we all get tired don't we, but they are never out for long, usually only about an hour so that's not problem.

Last time someone told me off for "dragging my kids out with me" the youngest said, "actually, we brought him out". It was true too, they had asked me to take them out, lol. You might be surprised what you would find if you bothered to ask. (He was 5 by the way).

As for don't take no for an answer, they should do, but that's not entirely the point. If you had information that could save someone's life, how easily would you give up on trying to share it? I guess that would depend on how much you cared about them wouldn't it. If you care you don't give up easily.

Do you never do anything that annoys others? Please don't say no because we all do.
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